dilute/pastel factors

[llllb]

i am trying to understand the mutation of lovebirds (esp on fisher lovebird)
1 of the problems i am having is telling dilute, pastel and dilute pastel apart
I got a lovebird that looks like this one
http://www.gencalc.com/gal/LBmaskGr/LBmaskGr_12101.jpg
the lighter color one
the flight feather is almost white with a tint of yellowish color while the forehead is completely orange
so i don't think it is a dilute bird, because the dilute factored bird should have a darker flight feather, right?
however, in the colored atlas of lovebirds by dr. Alessandro D'Angieri
it said the same bird as being a dilute green fisher (on page 156 for those who also had the book)

so my understanding is that
-dilute birds means lighter in ALL the pigments (so green color beings light yellow, the brown forehead becomes very light but you can still see it)
-pastel means lighter in only the Melanins (the black/brownish pigment) and you resulted in a yellow bird and you can't see the brownish color on the forehead
is that correct?

then what happen with a dilute+pastel bird?
the picture online aren't really giving me an answer
thanks a lot

[personatus]

A very confusing subject. A pastel bird is classed as a dilute bird in the USA for example. In international terms it's called pastel, and the dilute mutation is only found in nigrigenis and roseicollis. I don't think the real dilute mutation exists in the US, hence they call pastel dilute. I'll try to explain.

I think your confused because you are using mutiple terms for the same mutation.

The bird you show in the photo is a green PastelIno fischeri. This is a combination of pastel and NSL ino. Pastel is a parino mutation, basically it's a partially mutated version of NSL ino, so when the 2 mutations are combined we don't get pastel split ino or ino split pastel, we get a bird with a colour anywhere between the 2 mutations and it's called a PastelIno.

Pastel: In pastel birds we ideally want 50% reduction of eumelanin. The bird has a lighter overall appearance and in green series we see yellow bleached area's and in blue we see white bleached area's. The production of eumelanin only partially works so black area's are often faded and less light is absorbed through the feathers often dulling the colour of the bird. The eumelanin reduction can vary though, although 50% is desired we often see much more than that. Feet and nails can be faded also, but the colour of the eyes never change. Flight feathers are anything from light grey to white. The bird should have the same traits as a wildform but with the pastel colouration. In the US and other countries this mutation is called dilute.

Dilute: Here we see 80-90% reduction in eumelanin. The bird is very pale including the rump. Feet and nails are not effected neither is eye colour. Flight feathers are grey. This mutation is only found in Nigrigenis (black cheeked) and roseicollis (peachfaced). In rosecollis this is often refered to as japanese cherry amongst many other names. In roseicollis the hens used to have fertility problems with this mutation, it was a debatable and often frowned upon mutation... although these days in EU many breed without any problems what so ever. Theres no problems with this mutation in nigrigenis. I think this is refered to as "american dilute" in the USA and the mutation is not found in nigrigenis over there.


Therefore, a dilute and pastel bird is not possible in fischers.

[chinniechantel]

Wow, my head is spinning just reading this! I don't know how you do that!

[fischerfanatic]

Therefore, a dilute and pastel bird is not possible in fischers??

i dont understand that comment.. can u please explain as im not good with mutations?

my local bird shop said he has dilute fischer

[personatus]

The problem is different terms are used in different countries and by different societies. Where you live is crucial to the terms used.

In the US they use the term dilute. In EU, the same mutation is called pastel, not dilute, as we already have a proper dilute mutation....so we cant have 2 seperate mutations both called dilute!

If your local shop said they have a dilute, then it is either a pastel bird or a pastelino bird. How about some photo's?

[fischerfanatic]

ill try to get som photos this weekend