Raising a baby

[The Outlaw]

I can suggest you invest in The Large Macaws and Avian Medicine: Principles and Applications. They are pricey, but still much less expensive than one emergency trip to the vet.

I hope you can find what you're looking for. Good luck.

THE OUTLAW

[birdsnthings]

I know this is addressed to the Macaw Experts but I need to point out a very important issue.
For birds to fledge in the wild, they leave the nest and the parents.
In captivity, a domestically raised bird needs to leave the handfeeder to fledge.
If the baby doesn't leave the handfeeder there is an issue of overbonding with one person. Hence you may not have a well socialized bird.
I have raised my macaws and this is what happened to me. The ones I got weaned were very social except when the female B&G became hormonal.
There are so many issues in raising babies. Personally I would not let any baby go home until the bird is weaned and agree with what everyone on this board is trying to advuse here. Also you can become more stressed than the bird when weaning. I should know, been there. If a bird is not properly weaned then you can have additional problems and never know why.
Be safe and take one home weaned to just enjoy the heck out of.

[yehudasf]

BS"D

DCas:

If you folks don't want to help that's fine, I can accept that graciously and look elsewhere for people more willing to tell and teach me what I might need to know that's been left out of what I've read so far. Being lectured is one thing, being told that what I am about to do should be ILLEGAL is quite another. All I'm trying to do is give a bird a good home.

Making the assumption that people don't want to help is an error. Many of the folks who frequent this electronic forum are quite willing to give others the benefit of many years (in some cases decades, of experience). You need to understand that in 14 states in the USA currently (and 8 more with pending legislation) it is ILLEGAL to sell an unweaned psittaforme (any type of hook-beaked parrot) to any non-certified person. Punishments range from siezure of all birds on subject properties (in CA both the buyers & the sellers) to fines in the thousands of dollars as well as jail time of up to (in CA) 2 years. This legislation did not take place in a vacuum. There are thousands of horror stories of baby birds being killed by inept, innatentive, or just completely untrained "would-be" hand-feeders. Crops with hole burnt through the tissues, severe dehydration secondary to impaction due to insufficient fomula hydration, incorrect temperature, etc. I am certain that you get the idea. If you want to get an idea of what a baby macaw actually looks like when a neonate, see the thread titled: Viridian Rose is Home! *Pictures*, in the Bird Talk section. This thread shows a seventeen day old Ara Chloroptera (Green & Red Macaw, or Greenwing in the US) neonate that I am rearing. Understand that I have > 40 years experience with the large Macaws, & have hand-reared literally hundreds of babies. To start with, at hatch most Macaws weigh less than 15 grammes, and are around the size of a quarter. Their oesophageal opening in their throat is about the size of a standard led on a cdrom drive, & of course their tracheal opening is right up next to it. Even day-one babies are extremely vigourous pumpers when trying to feed. Not only can this cause aspiration death (food going into the lungs), but even more likely is severe trauma to the tissues of the oral cavity caused by the babies aggressive pumping being uncontrolled & the distal point of the syringe being driven, repeatedly into the various structures. I will not list the plethora of things that could go wrong & cause suffering & death to a neonate, simply because this is not the place, & frankly, I don't think it would do a great deal of good. If one wishes to be a life companion to a psittazen, the first requirement is to put the needs of the psittazen first. We cage them, & control them, we are therefore responsible for providing for all of their life needs; emotional, physical, social & nutritional that rival those of a dependent primate infant. A tack that you might give consideration is asking a local avian veterinarian for a referral to an ethical breeder who might be willing to train you as a hand-feeder. This would have some very big advantages: 1. You would get the real "hands-on" experience that all of the electronic/analog chit-chat in the world cannot provide. 2. It would allow you to find out for certain if this is something that you really want to enter into. 3. Once you are trained & proficient, it is very likely that successful breeder might be willing to enter into an agreement to trade a baby that you desire for your hand-feeding services for x number of babies. Later on you could barter your services for (the never ending list of ) bird toys, & other things that the feathered ones need. In this manner you could do as you state, &

give a bird a good home

approaching neonate hand-feeding without any training will only result in pain, & in 14 states could also result in jail time or fines.

[The Outlaw]

Yehuda:

As usual, the voice of experience and wisdom. I will be happy to cross post the information you provided on ********** to the Veridian Rose thread. I think its an excellent study for everyone.

THE OUTLAW

[yehudasf]

BS"D

Nancy,

Thank you, as always, you are willing to step into the breech to help the psittazens & their companions.

[SWhite]

[QUOTE=DCas]Ok, I have tried to be gracious about the replies that I got, even though I was made to feel like a five year old who had just said a bad word. I realize that a lot of uninformed people probably buy birds and don't care for them properly, and I can understand the reluctance to help somone over the internet since you don't know them personally. BUT, the point here being, you don't know them personally. I know quite a bit about the proper care for a Macaw since I lived with one all my growing up life. I simply don't know much about caring for a baby macaw. I have done as much homework as I can, made sure I could properly care for it monetarily and was looking for someone experienced to give me tips and pointers.

If you folks don't want to help that's fine, I can accept that graciously and look elsewhere for people more willing to tell and teach me what I might need to know that's been left out of what I've read so far. Being lectured is one thing, being told that what I am about to do should be ILLEGAL is quite another. All I'm trying to do is give a bird a good home. If I didn't care about its health, I wouldn't have bothered to spend my time researching and asking for help and swallowing criticisim in hopes of getting advice. As I said before, every expert starts out an amateur, and I'd be willing to be that most of you who DO hand raise birds didn't start out with a course or an avian vet hanging over your shoulder, so perhaps the attitude here is a bit hypocritical, hmm? [end quote]



This is EXACTLY what I wanted to say when I was asking questions about my new 5 week old baby B&G Macaw! Luckily for me I just ignored all the bs and paid attention to the good advise I got. Now, I am very glad I bought my macaw at 5 weeks old, it has been a great experience. Would not trade it for anything.

PS-NOW I am experienced.

.........Shea

[The Outlaw]

Shea:

With all due respect you were simply LUCKY that things didn't go to hell. It happens so often that its frightening and that's WHY so many states ban the sale of unweaned baby birds.

If you had aspirated your baby, you'd be feeling a whole lot differently today. Fortunately, you didn't and your baby is thriving. I cannot tell you how often we have to console first timers who weren't so fortunate.

The point is this: its TOTALLY avoidable. Let the breeders earn their money.

[Franciscus]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

Shea:

With all due respect you were simply LUCKY that things didn't go to hell. It happens so often that its frightening and that's WHY so many states ban the sale of unweaned baby birds.

If you had aspirated your baby, you'd be feeling a whole lot differently today. Fortunately, you didn't and your baby is thriving. I cannot tell you how often we have to console first timers who weren't so fortunate.

The point is this: its TOTALLY avoidable. Let the breeders earn their money.

I agree wholeheartedly. Even if there is a really good chance the baby does survive and thrive, the chances of them doing so are simply better with an experienced handfeeder and the chance of having a baby bird suffer and/or die are not worth the risk. If you insist on doing it yourself, go and learn how to do it properly.

You know aht REALLY bugs me? WHen people ask for advise from a bunch of caring people and they get all snitty when they don't like the advise given. Then they suggest they go elsewhere untill they find answers they want to hear. As Yehuda said, these laws were not created in a vaccuum, there was/is a need for them. Grow up!

[LivingFiction]

I can understand how it could feel like one was being judged by the direction of this thread, but I think it's more a matter of having hit a hard and fast belief. If I ask for advice about how I should best go about putting my head in a deep fryer, the reply will come back that I simply should not put my head in a deep fryer, and no matter how much I protest that I've made my decision, it's hard for people to get around their gut feeling that it is simply not a good idea.

I understand the desire to hand feed your own baby. I considered doing it when we were looking into Feo. But after a ton of research, I found that getting a baby just as it's finished weaning and beginning to fledge is actually the best time for bonding. Until then, it's just feed me feed me feed me, but when the weaning process finishes, the baby starts looking to create bonds.

The visits we made to Feo were wonderful, and rewarding, but I feel our relationship didn't really start to make serious steps until he stopped taking the syringe.

Like Nancy said, we're not allowed to talk about handfeeding here, but there is a lot of good information out there, and the Kaytee brand mentioned is a good one. It sounds to me like you are the perfect candidate for a Macaw, and will make a great parront. You are well equipped to give him or her the life they deserve. I hope you decide to stick around are forgive the inability to give you the reactions you want. Just because we don't always love the way you want us to doesn't mean we don't love with all we've got!

[Franciscus]

Well said Michael, and a lot gentler than I was.