Raising a baby

[LivingFiction]

SWhite I am really suprised to hear this from you. I followed your thread with Stitch and you handled both the grandstanding of our many bird lovers and the handfeeding of a new bird like a champ. I didn't realize you harbored such resentment.

I think the drama with which some of the posts are made are just for the purpose of getting a person's attention to impress upon them the importance of doing things right, the way you did. And look at your baby! He's beautiful!

[SWhite]

Originally Posted by LivingFiction

SWhite I am really suprised to hear this from you. I followed your thread with Stitch and you handled both the grandstanding of our many bird lovers and the handfeeding of a new bird like a champ. I didn't realize you harbored such resentment.

I think the drama with which some of the posts are made are just for the purpose of getting a person's attention to impress upon them the importance of doing things right, the way you did. And look at your baby! He's beautiful!

But, He told me to grow up. Really made me mad.
I am 35 years old, and run my own company. I had the intelligence, to gain the knolage, to properly handfeed and raise this baby macaw. I did not know there were thousands of baby birds being killed due to handfeeding them improperly. I went to the bird show to buy a B&G Macaw, the ONLY one they had at the whole bird show was a 5 week old baby. Talked to 2 breeders thay said handfeeding is easy, so I bought the bird. I knew I had a 50/50 chance of this bird dying. I took the chance, learned everything I could, and did fine. Tell you the truth, it was easy, But I was allways watching him for anything out of the ordinary. 24 hour vet clinic nearby, and avian vet nearby. I don't think it was luck. I learned what to do and did it. I dont know why anyone would buy a baby bird and let it starve, or not feed it properly. I did not do that. I did a good job on raising this bird. I could have aspired him, but so could have a breeder. Breeders have babies die on them too, and they have accidents too. They are trying to feed several babies at one time, they get in a hurry. The breeder that showed me how to feed my macaw shot 60cc of formula down the macaws beak in 10 seconds. Think he does not have accidents? My wife and I learned how to feed alot slower so we would not kill him. All I am saying is that if someone buys a baby and asks questions on this board we should help them instead of telling them they are BAD.
..............Shea

[Franciscus]

Originally Posted by SWhite

But, He told me to grow up. .......Shea

Shea, I'm sorry I upset you. The comment was directed at Donna but was not very nice on my part. It upsets me when peple ask for advice and when people are nice enough to offer advice they get all bent out of shape when they don't like the advice given. I stand firm in my belief that baby parrots are to be reared by their parents or EXPERIENCED handfeeders.

[SWhite]

Originally Posted by Franciscus

Shea, I'm sorry I upset you. The comment was directed at Donna but was not very nice on my part. It upsets me when peple ask for advice and when people are nice enough to offer advice they get all bent out of shape when they don't like the advice given. I stand firm in my belief that baby parrots are to be reared by their parents or EXPERIENCED handfeeders.

apology accepted. Did you know a pair of macaws can hatch up to 4 eggs, 2 WILL STARVE TO DEATH. 2 may survive if there is enough food for the parents to give them, but usualy does not work out that way. Usualy only 1 baby survives. Did you know that 99% of all handfed baby birds survive, and that includes the number of babies sold to inexperienced handfeeders. I have herd about all the babies dying in the hands of inexperienced handfeeders, But how many have survived and were raised properly by inexperienced people? I am being serious. Does anyone know the # of babies that turned out fine? Maybe 2 in 10 die and the other 8 turn out ok? Same or even better odds than macaw parent raised, if that is the case. The breeder that I bought my baby from said that they have sold many babies and have only had 1 macaw die. Man sprayed roundup in his yard, next day took macaw outside. The macaw died, but not from handfeeding. Simple accident, he did not know the dangers of roundup.
..........Shea

[Rue]

...okay...but it seems some would rather alienate than advise...

...now what good does that do anyone?...

...lots of people do something that isn't 100% right, but then who determines what's 100% right? Pretty subjective...

...is it impossible to express an opinion in a helpful manner rather than a confrontational manner?...

For example...I think parents have NO right to make the decision and pierce their children's ears. It's not their body and they have NO right to do cosmetic modifications, no matter how minor. I can voice this opinion without getting in these parents' faces and telling them I think they're criminal ...how does that further my 'cause'?

Ah well, just my opinion...now back to the birds...

[The Outlaw]

Shea:

If memory serves, I believe I tried to help you with your bird. You seemed grateful for that help at the time. If I'm incorrect, please let me know. Let me tell you a personal story about my very own Dreamie. If you've read it before I'm sorry.

I have a friend that has been selling birds for over 25 years. She handfeeds her babies and never sells them unweaned TO ANYONE.

She was contacted in the middle of the night by a mutual friend. Seems his young neighbors were on their honeymoon in Florida and purchased a very young baby macaw from a street vendor. He explained that it was "easy" to handfeed too. They finished their week in Florida and came home. They couldn't wait to show their neighbor their new pet. When John saw Dreamie his heart sank. The baby was barely feathered, with sunken cheeks, popping eyes and very, very weak. He demanded that the couple turn the bird over to him immediately or else he was going to call animal control. They complied. They didn't even realize how close to death this baby bird was.

When my girlfriend received the bird at almost midnight, she was doubtful that she could save him. However, with no vet available until the following day, she agreed to try. At that point the couple signed their rights away to her. Dreamie somehow managed to hang on that evening and was vetted the following day. He had just about everything wrong that a baby bird could have. It cost her over $800.00 to bring him back from the brink, and that's getting all of her supplies and meds wholesale.

Needless to say, he wasn't the most beautiful bird in her shop and their wasn't a demand for him. She liked him a lot, but had two personal pet birds and didn't want a third. At that time she started actively looking to place him.

Fate brought me into her store that very day. I came to look at a little Hahns. As I passed by Dreamie's cage, he stuck his little foot out to touch me. I asked the clerk if they knew his gender. They were certain he was a DNAd male. I was sad, because I already had a female and didn't want to have pairs. I walked back and took a look at the Hahns. He was cute.

I decided to go home and think about the Hahns. It was my birthday the following day and I figured this would be my last bird. Still I kept thinking about Dreamie. He was such a little character.

I decided to buy the Hahns. Again, I didn't want a pair of BGs. When I called the store, they had just sold him. My girlfriend came to the phone. She begged me to take Dreamie. She told me his story. I made no promise, but asked Will to come with me for a second visit. As soon as I entered the room, Dreamie got all excited and tried once again to reach me. He was in a cage that made it very difficult to get him out. I opened the door and he scrambled out and ran up my arm. I looked at Will and told him all about Dreamie's story. My friend asked me to please reconsider him. I told her I would not pay more than $1000. She was so happy. She threw in a cage and off we went.

Dreamie was lucky. The fates were very kind to him. His first owners weren't bad people. They were TYPICAL people. They didn't know what handfeeding entailed. And, unfortunately all over the south, this scenario plays out over and over again. Your statistic are unrealistic. They come from petshops and breeders. Most sick birds NEVER see a vet.

In the wild, nature controls how many birds survive. In abundant years, its very common for entire clutches to thrive. When resources are slim, parents are forced to chose which will live and die. In fact, sometimes entire clutches are abandoned.

We control the variables. To handfeed isn't the question. PREPARING beforehand to handfeed and to provide emergency aid is. THAT'S the difference. Many baby macaws today are alive and underweight with life long problems because no one told new parents that they required a special macaw formula, not just the normal formula. Its exactly those kinds of things that make the difference between success and failure.

Again, I commend you on your success, but I really feel that a lot of it was luck, plain and simple. JMHO.

[SWhite]

Outlaw,
You did help and I appreciate it, but you also gave me a tong lashing. I am not a good righter, I just type in what I have to say, I'm not angry although it may seem that way if you read my posts. I'm just typing what I have to say. So here it goes:
It did seem as if Donna was being treated like a 5 year old (I felt the same way). Everytime someone asks questions about unweened birds they get treated that way. We come to this board to learn. I had read all the posts on baby birds when I got mine, So I knew I would get told it was a bad thing when I posted pics of my new baby, and I did. I ignored all the posts that said the breeder was bad, and I was made to feel like a bad child for buying a baby. I just kept asking questions because I really wanted to properly raise my bird.
You should see how PROUD I am of my Macaw. To think I took and raised a 5 week old baby with no feathers, and now he is beautiful. You should see how he loves us and we love him. I am very proud!
If I had gotten mad and left this board, or if I had been too scared to ask questions because of the remarks, things could have turned out very different.
Like I said I had read all the posts about babies on this board when I got this bird. I knew for a fact that I was going to aspire him, I knew he would get a bacterial infection, I knew he would fall and break something. I knew I had a 50/50 chance that my bird would die.( I am very surprised I had no emergencies) So with the help I recieved from this board I was ready for all of these things. Luckly none of these things happened.
Now Donna (DCas) Has gotten mad and left. She wants a baby macaw. So, she WILL find a breeder to sell her a baby, and she will buy that baby. Now, she has left and will raise a baby bird without your help. That baby bird would have alot better chance of survival with the help of everyone at this board (as mine did).And what ever happened to nykkchic, I wonder how her baby is doing? She got souch a tong lashing. I felt bad. I dont see her posts anymore.
TN and MS it is not illegal to buy and sell baby birds. You should have seen all the 3 and 5 week old babies for sale at the Memphis bird show this spring. They had 3 times more babies for sale as did weaned birds. Think about all the people being talked into buying a baby and know nothing about it. They come home with a sheet of paper with a feeding schedule on it, as I did. Without this board I would have been lost.
Why do you say talking about handfeeding is not allowed here?
Why dont you post a thread, like the macaw thread or the lounge. Post a thread just on how to handfeed babies. I KNOW you think it would cause people to run out and buy babies. BUT what about the people that have allready baught babies and want to learn. Just think of all the people you could help, and how many babies could be saved.
I dont know why people spend hundreds of dollars to buy a baby bird and then starve it. I could not do that to a baby bird, even if it was given to me. I think that if someone comes to this board and asks questions, they are at least trying to raise a baby bird right.
I dont know, you might be right. Maybe they should not sell baby birds. But right now they are selling them. Why not help, without the remarks?
...........Shea

[Franciscus]

Shea, those are very valid points. The thing is, it is extremely difficult to write how to properly feed a baby bird. It is much better for people to get hands on experience from folks who know what they are doing, or better yet, let them do it. I think if information about handfeeding became available on the internet where a lot of people could read it more people would want to try it. I think you are probably right about Donna buying a baby from a breeder to try to raise but I hope not. She has good intentions but good intentions are not all that is required. I hope she will at least take into concideration the advise given here. People here get a little upset about the subject because we deeply care about animals, especially parrots. The thought of baby parrots possibly suffering because someone thinks it would be fun, or interesting, or the only way to properly get a good bond, and handfeed one with all the potential for problems is too much. I got rude, and I regret that. I am of the opinion that the animals in our care are outr responsibility as a society, and we need to ensure that ALL are cared for properly.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by SWhite

I did not know there were thousands of baby birds being killed due to handfeeding them improperly. I went to the bird show to buy a B&G Macaw, the ONLY one they had at the whole bird show was a 5 week old baby. Talked to 2 breeders thay said handfeeding is easy, so I bought the bird. I knew I had a 50/50 chance of this bird dying. I took the chance, learned everything I could, and did fine.

THIS is the real problem. Breeders are selling unweaned babies and making people think it is easy and then they don't want to believe us when we say that it isn't that easy. The breeder wants to make a sale, we care about the welfare of the bird. There are all kinds of things that can go wrong. Shea you were in the lucky 50%. What about the other 50%? The bird doesn't get to choose who buys him, the lucky ones or the unlucky ones who will have problems they are ill-equiped to deal with.

[DocT]

I truly believe the advice given was in no way harsh or meant to make Donna feel like a child. Hanfeeding any baby bird can be risky ,and as Shea said she had a 50/50 chance. Why in the world would you want to buy a bird and then say OK bird you have a 50/50 chance of survival. Shea you did ok but let me tell you it very well could have been the other way. Now you are standing tall and saying it was really quite easy. But how would you have felt if it went wrong? I do not think people should buy birds that are only a few weeks old and say OK that looks pretty simple I can do this. You are dealing with a living breathing animal that has feelings and they have no choice or say in the matter. I am just as opposed to breeders selling babies at that young of an age because it shows they don't care what happens either the money is in their pockets. I am sorry if I come across as a hard a** but I am first and foremost an animal lover who takes the responsibility of owning a bird very seriously. I have seen people like Donna and shea at the animal hospital too many times. We end up fighting to save the birds life when you have messed up royally. I can honestly say that 9 out 0f 10 couldn't be saved. We try to be civil and tell you were sorry there was nothing we could do for them. When what we want to say What in the hell-o were you thinking trying to raise a baby so young having no experience. Their cute and their cuddly at that age but they are in fact BABIES. I will shut up now but had to put my 2cents worth in.

Bonnie