Raising a baby

[DCas]

Good Morning! My name is Donna, I'm 36 years old, married with two kids, two dogs, and two cats. I've been a bird lover all my life. I've had some experience with large birds, as my dad owned a Greenwing Macaw all my life. Buddy passed away about 2 years ago at the age of 75. Also I cared for a friends Moluccan Cockatoo for a year when he was put on active duty overseas several years ago during the Kuwaiti conflict. (That was an adventure, let me tell you!) I also have owned a Cockatiel, who passed away at age 17.

When the Cockatiel (Slick) died, I was so heartbroken that I shied away from birds for a long time because I was so attached to him. It's been about 5 years since I've owned a bird now and I'm longing for one. Sargent, my dad's GW was a wonderful bird and my Husband and I have decided we'd like to try a Macaw. We've also decided to try hand raising one. The closest breeder to us sells them at 3 to 4 weeks and the buyer finishs the weaning. I know this is a very difficult thing to do, and I want to be careful so I've been combing the internet looking for articles and people who can guide me. I found this place and in my reading noticed that a few here have and are hand raising Macaws. I was hoping you all would be willing to help me as I think someone with experience is much better than a book to read.

There are a few specific questions I know you are all going to ask so let me see if I can cover them beforehand. I live in a 3500 square foot house. We own it and have room for the bird. We also have a backyard big enough to set up an outdoor aviary. We have the funds to care for the bird and I will be its primary caregiver. Hubby owns his own business and he is established enough that we can be fairly certain we're not going to wake up one day and I have to go back to work. My marriage is intact, has been for 13 years and isn't apt to break up. My children are 8 and 9 and they know from Sargent how to treat a large bird. We have a brand new avian vet that just moved two towns over. Well, not brand new, he's been here for around 6 years now, but until then the closest was bout 4 hours away. Now we only have to travel about 45 minutes. I have not met him but my dad has and said he's a good vet. I have never hand raised a bird, (although I have bottle raised a cat and a dog)nor do I have contact with anyone who has. Dad got Sargent at age 20, my friend got his 'Too at age 3, and I got my 'Tiel at 8 months. This is why I need to be pointed in the right direction.

Have I covered all the bases? Feel free to ask anything I may have forgotten. The desicion is made about getting a bird and I put a deposit down with the breeder for her next batch of Blue and Golds. I don't have the bird yet, so I have plenty of time for preparing. I'm hoping someone here can point me towards the right books, equiptment, etc, or better yet, take me under their wing? LOL! Trust me, I am well aware of the commitment that has to be made to one of these birds, which is why I am out here trying to find out all I can ahead of time.

Thanks everyone!

[The Outlaw]

Welcome to Birdboard.

I'm gonna tell you exactly what I think, so please understand that its because of a recent series of events that I'm gonna pull no punches. Handfeeding a baby macaw is NOT for amateurs. There are way too many variables and it only takes one bad shot down the wrong pipe and you will have killed that baby. They don't sit still, the jump up and down and can pack quite a wallop when they start pumping.

A good breeder would NEVER sell you an unweaned baby. They care too much about that bird and want to place it in the BEST and SAFEST environment they can possibly find. A BAD breeder will happily take your money and leave you twisting in the wind when things go to hell.

Consider the following scenarios:

The baby your describe will require handfeedings round the clock for many months. Greenwings, especially, take longer to feed out. It may be as long as 8 or 9 months before they are satisfied to eat on their own.

The risk of bacterial infection is quite high. Either due to incorrect temperatures, bad formula, improper handling, poor hygiene, etc.

You will need to weigh this baby daily and know what to look for should symptoms develop that could prove fatal. Do you have access to nystatin, Diflucan, Baytril, etc?

Do you have a brooder? Can you consistantly maintain the proper temps round the clock?

Do you know how to safely fledge a bird? Trim wings and nails? Pull broken blood feathers?

Is your home truly birdsafe? Do you use scented candles, cleaning products that emit toxic fumes, use Teflon products, smoke, have dogs and cats?

How close is a certified avian vet? How about a second vet should the first one be unreachable?

Can you set aside AT LEAST $2000 more in the event of medical crisis?

If you cannot provide for everything listed here, then you are not qualified or ready to take on an unweaned baby macaw. However, if you decide to let a breeder do his job and present you with a baby ready to happily join your family for the rest of your life, then congratulations for being unselfish enough to deserve a sweet baby macaw. The reason that healthy baby birds cost more than less desirable birds is because some dedicated and caring breeder took the time out of his life to properly raise that baby. If it costs you $500 more, that is frankly, cheap. Would you work for $3.50 and hour? Round the clock?

I have 10 birds, 5 of which are macaws. I love them more than I can possibly set down in writing. Seeing people take shortcuts always makes me nervous. It ALWAYS winds up biting them in the butt. And its very hard on the bird.

Here's how I look at it: if you're prepared to take the family's housepayment money and roll the dice at Vegas, then and ONLY then should you consider taking in an unweaned baby bird.

THE OUTLAW

[DCas]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

Welcome to Birdboard.

I'm gonna tell you exactly what I think, so please understand that its because of a recent series of events that I'm gonna pull no punches. Handfeeding a baby macaw is NOT for amateurs. There are way too many variables and it only takes one bad shot down the wrong pipe and you will have killed that baby. They don't sit still, the jump up and down and can pack quite a wallop when they start pumping.

A good breeder would NEVER sell you an unweaned baby. They care too much about that bird and want to place it in the BEST and SAFEST environment they can possibly find. A BAD breeder will happily take your money and leave you twisting in the wind when things go to hell.

Consider the following scenarios:

The baby your describe will require handfeedings round the clock for many months. Greenwings, especially, take longer to feed out. It may be as long as 8 or 9 months before they are satisfied to eat on their own.

The risk of bacterial infection is quite high. Either due to incorrect temperatures, bad formula, improper handling, poor hygiene, etc.

You will need to weigh this baby daily and know what to look for should symptoms develop that could prove fatal. Do you have access to nystatin, Diflucan, Baytril, etc?

Do you have a brooder? Can you consistantly maintain the proper temps round the clock?

Do you know how to safely fledge a bird? Trim wings and nails? Pull broken blood feathers?

Is your home truly birdsafe? Do you use scented candles, cleaning products that emit toxic fumes, use Teflon products, smoke, have dogs and cats?

How close is a certified avian vet? How about a second vet should the first one be unreachable?

Can you set aside AT LEAST $2000 more in the event of medical crisis?

If you cannot provide for everything listed here, then you are not qualified or ready to take on an unweaned baby macaw. However, if you decide to let a breeder do his job and present you with a baby ready to happily join your family for the rest of your life, then congratulations for being unselfish enough to deserve a sweet baby macaw. The reason that healthy baby birds cost more than less desirable birds is because some dedicated and caring breeder took the time out of his life to properly raise that baby. If it costs you $500 more, that is frankly, cheap. Would you work for $3.50 and hour? Round the clock?

I have 10 birds, 5 of which are macaws. I love them more than I can possibly set down in writing. Seeing people take shortcuts always makes me nervous. It ALWAYS winds up biting them in the butt. And its very hard on the bird.

Here's how I look at it: if you're prepared to take the family's housepayment money and roll the dice at Vegas, then and ONLY then should you consider taking in an unweaned baby bird.

THE OUTLAW

Hello and thank you for responding. I actually think I answered some of your questions in my first post but let me see if I can address them one by one.

First of all, I will be getting a B&G not a GW, although I don't think that makes much difference in my ability to care for the baby. I am aware that babies require round the clock care. I have raised two human babies as well as a dog and cat baby. I have not raised a bird baby before, which is why I am looking for advise and guidance. I am aware it is going to be vastly different, but getting up to feed and care for an infant is something I am familiar with.

I DO have the funds to buy the nessasary items for a baby macaw. I do NOT have any equiptment yet, because I am looking for some experienced advise on what the best brands, types, etc are. I am perfectly prepared to buy all the things I need to care for it properly.

The home is bird safe other than the cats and dogs. I don't believe this will be too much of an issue because they are all accustomed to living with a bird, and their access to the baby will certainly be non existant. All my animals are crate trained, crated at night and when I leave home and as I understand I must have the baby with me at all times, they will not be allowed near it.

Actually I can trim wings. I have trimmed them for both my dad's deceased GW and my cockatiel. I have pulled one bloodfeather, and while I found the task most unpleasant, I could do it again if I had to. I have not trimmed nails.

The avian vet we will use is 45 minutes away. There are two of them, but should both be unreachable for some reason, The next one is about four hours away.

And once again, the money it cost to buy a bird is not the issue here for us. I WANT a baby. I WANT to raise it. And as for being an amateur...not trying to be rude, but EVERYONE has a first time, there for experts were once amateurs too.

I appreciate your opinion, truely. I understand why you try to discourage people who might not know what they are getting into. But I do understand what I am about to do. I was just hoping for some guidance from someone who HAD done it before. I quite understand if no one on the board wants to advise me but it won't change my desicion.

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way because I mean it with the utmost respect for someone who obivously has some experience.

Thanks.

[The Outlaw]

I don't mean to imply for one moment that you can't do this. I just need to stress for anyone reading, and there are hundreds, that its not like raising human babies, puppies or any other living thing. Its EXACTLY like raising a baby macaw.

Frankly, to discuss handfeeding on an open public forum is insane. In fact, its not even allowed here. However, I do think that you would do very well to contact a reputable breeder and ask to come in for a few weeks and help them out. They can teach you how to handfeed and show you what you need and what to look for. I'm all for education.

And, you're right. GW, BG, Scarlet, etc, that's not the problem. They all feed similarly.

Most breeders that I know prefer Kaytee Exact Macaw formula. They like the way it mixes. You MUST use macaw specific formula, for the other formulas lack the added fats that growing macaws require.

As for the breeder you are currently negotiating with, why not ask to come and learn from them. That should make everything easier on everyone concerned.

You need to understand that not everyone would follow the directions to the letter and feed properly. That's exactly why most legitimate boards won't give specifics. However, apparently there are some that will.

We just recently had a FORMER member lose a GW and replace it with a baby BG just days later. No necropsy, nothing. She just stupidly exposed a little baby to whatever pathogens were hanging around. She also failed to quarantine the new baby from her other two birds. Guess what, her new baby has a bacterial infection. Are you surprised? And, now she's added ANOTHER baby too. Another baby GW! THAT'S why I no longer encourage novices or folks with limited experience to bring home unweaned baby birds.

It only takes ONE mistake. Breeders will not take back sick babies. They can't expose their own birds. That's the MOST important reason to buy a fully weaned baby bird.

I really hope you'll think it through. Its really no different from bringing home and unweaned chimp, alligator or porpoise. They are all exotics and require very, very special handling.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll make a great parrot companion. I hope so.

THE OUTLAW

[DCas]

Originally Posted by Jodi

Welcome to the board! I agree with Nancy, most good breeders will not sell unweand babies, especially to someone that has never handfed. You sound like you are doing a lot of research, and if you are dead set on raising a baby, make sure you have someone show you how to hand feed. Not just one time, make sure they show you and you watch, learn, and do it yourself until you are totally comfortable in doing it before bringing home baby. There have been many babies die from inexpierienced people handfeeding. It is not impossible, you sound very prepared and willing to do whatever it takes. Many people think it is no big deal and buy unweaned babies to save a few bucks. There really is no difference in the bonding if you feed the baby or a breeder does it. Most breeders will let you visit your baby and once weaned and home with their new parents they take no time to form a bond.
If you do get a baby, make sure you have the things Nancy mentioned, correct temp. , a gram scale etc. Keep us posted. :)

Thank you for the advice. The breeder is out of state but I will contact her and ask to come up one weekend to learn how to hand feed. It sounds like a very good idea to learn how to do that properly before hand.

I am researching all I can and will continue to do so. I truely am not doing this on a whim.

[DCas]

to Outlaw:

Thank you for the advice. I will contact the breeder and see if I can arrange to go up for one weekend and learn to hand feed properly. Also thank you for the tip on the formula.

I do understand about your feelings on inexperienced people hand raising. I was not aware it was against the rules to discuss it on the board. But since it is, would or could you be willing to point me towards any books or articles which might educate me better?

[Tiki]

Just going on recent reports of bird fairs in the USA, I was shocked that so many unweaned babies are offered for sale to the public. That is not allowed here in Australia. I do see unweaned babies being sold or swapped between breeders at bird club meetings, but this would be from one experienced breeder to another, certainly not just anyone off the street. What I would really like to see in the States is something similar-it should be illegal to sell unweaned baby birds to the public and there should be some kind of qualification to be allowed to buy an unweaned baby like doing a course with an avian vet or experienced breeder.

[DCas]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Just going on recent reports of bird fairs in the USA, I was shocked that so many unweaned babies are offered for sale to the public. That is not allowed here in Australia. I do see unweaned babies being sold or swapped between breeders at bird club meetings, but this would be from one experienced breeder to another, certainly not just anyone off the street. What I would really like to see in the States is something similar-it should be illegal to sell unweaned baby birds to the public and there should be some kind of qualification to be allowed to buy an unweaned baby like doing a course with an avian vet or experienced breeder.

Ok, I have tried to be gracious about the replies that I got, even though I was made to feel like a five year old who had just said a bad word. I realize that a lot of uninformed people probably buy birds and don't care for them properly, and I can understand the reluctance to help somone over the internet since you don't know them personally. BUT, the point here being, you don't know them personally. I know quite a bit about the proper care for a Macaw since I lived with one all my growing up life. I simply don't know much about caring for a baby macaw. I have done as much homework as I can, made sure I could properly care for it monetarily and was looking for someone experienced to give me tips and pointers.

If you folks don't want to help that's fine, I can accept that graciously and look elsewhere for people more willing to tell and teach me what I might need to know that's been left out of what I've read so far. Being lectured is one thing, being told that what I am about to do should be ILLEGAL is quite another. All I'm trying to do is give a bird a good home. If I didn't care about its health, I wouldn't have bothered to spend my time researching and asking for help and swallowing criticisim in hopes of getting advice. As I said before, every expert starts out an amateur, and I'd be willing to be that most of you who DO hand raise birds didn't start out with a course or an avian vet hanging over your shoulder, so perhaps the attitude here is a bit hypocritical, hmm?

I guess this forum isn't the place for me. I'll find somewhere a bit friendlier and a bit less judgemental. You all have a nice day.

[Tiki]

Donna, my comments were not directed specifically to you, I spoke in general terms. In over 2 years of being on Birdboard, I have seen a lot of baby birds die in the hands of well-meaning but inexperienced people who didn't know what they were getting themselves into. I am not a breeder nor would I buy an unweaned baby because at this point, I am not qualified to deal with everything that could go wrong. This article lists several things that could go wrong when handfeeding a baby bird.

http://www.birdboard.com/forum/thread7386.html

Handfeeding is a skill that needs to be learned properly BEFORE anyone takes the responsibility of a baby bird's life. I would advise anyone who is not 100% certain they can deal with everything in this article to please allow the breeder to wean the bird and make frequent visits to bond with him while you are waiting for him to be weaned.

[Franciscus]

Donna, it's not that people don't care here, we DO! As a matter of fact, the majority here put birds FIRST. An ethical breeder does not sell baby parrots to inexperienced handfeeders. It's not a question of having someone show you a couple of times but gaining experience over a period of time. If you think you want to handfeed your baby macaw so it will bond more closely to you it is simply not true, they do leave their parents in the wild to develop other relationships with other birds, eventually with a lifelong mate. Please, for yourself and for the bird, follow the advice of these folks, they speak from the heart. Take the time to get to know us and you will see.