My Scrawny Severe

[Winged_Victory]

Good Morning and how is Cosmo doing? What is his weight?

The intent of this post is not to sound like a vet but to have you ask questions, sometimes vet in a rush can overlook things.

I wish you vet has at least done a fecal and gram stain yesterday! Since I don’t know if your vet is the avian variety, you need to ask many questions and expect answers in layman’s terms. Should the bird need antibiotics, ask about the antifungal for taking care of yeast. If the bird is immune compromised he will need the antifungal! Ask what type bacteria he is seeing in a fecal and what the “count” is. Earlier this year the board had a bird lost to psittacosis. Since the test may take some time to get back ask about using doxycycline as one of the antibiotics. Ask to be shown how to administer the medications. The avian vet will probably give the bird a “loading” dose of medications while in his office. Ask about intensive care and if he has overnight facilities. Ask about the Laferber’s intensive care formula to feed. Ask for the vets cell number should you have any problems! Ask about Sub-Q injections for fluids should you need them! Ask how to check for hydration.

I want the best for Cosmo and want you to know your options in advance, should there be problem. We are going to the vet appointment with you!!

[The Outlaw]

Yes, that is the product I was referring to. I keep a jar handy at all times. You just never know when ANY sick bird might need a calorie boost. I'm praying for your little guy. I know this has been a nightmare for you.

[CALVINS MOM]

Thanks Gary and Outlaw. I did mention the Lafeber's earlier in one of my posts. I am not sure as to the experience level of Cosmo's vet with birds, so I did mention about an antbacterial and antifungal. I believe Cosmo's mom is taking a list of notes to the vet with her. Good call on the Sub-Q injections, too. He probably is dehydrated. I was surprised the vet did not keep Cosmo yesterday as he is so very thin. I sure hope the little guy makes a quick recovery.

[Joel]

I still think the best way to handle this weight concern and "boniness" issue is to leave Cosmo at the "right" Vet's office (for awhile) to be crop fed and medicated (if needed) by experienced well qualified staff while whatever necessary tests are performed there under watchful eyes (I personally would find a well known, reputable, highly recommended, certified A.V. even if I had to drive a ways to do so).

Nancy's Severe is 370 grams and your's is 322 so that is less than 15% less body weight. Hers' has lots of meat/flesh and is well built I believe she said and yours is going thru the fledging, final weaning stage (I think - don't know much about MaCaws and how long it takes to fully wean - when cared for properly I should say). I still am not sure there is any real problem here as far as any sickness or disease is concerned but the tests will show that I hope.

Unless Cosmo has unusually large bone structure which would naturally require much more flesh to be attached to label him "healthy" (more than Nancy's Severe), I would not get overly worked up yet. I know you are worried and love Cosmo but try and relax a little until a well seasoned vet sees him.

I would make positive your formula is very fresh (usually you can tell by smell). I have bought brand new 5 lb. bags before that were spoiled. I would also toss those syringes into the trash and get new ones rather than trying to sterilize them. They are pretty cheap IMO.

I always worry about taking birds into vet offices in the first place as who knows what microbs may be lurking in there or how good the vet and staff are at using proper disinfecting methods. How about the stuff in the A.C. vents? Scary stuff when ya think about it. Anyway, ya got to do what ya got to do under the circumstances. If it was my bird, I would have crop fed it for awhile, the proper amounts, the proper amount of times each day, before ever going to any vet but since you are not experienced at that and did not find anyone to do that for ya, then the vet was the most logical choice.

Best of luck to you and Cosmo . I will be interested to hear what the vet advises and finds out in the tests. Please post the meds prescribed and the doses.... Thanks.

[bustersbuddy]

Hi, man, this is just tearing me apart! I'm so hopping mad at that "Broker" I could just SPIT ! Ok, you need to keep everything, I mean EVERYTHING, receipts, car milage back and forth from home to vet, home to pet store, every receipt for food, thermometers, supplies, etc. You get the picture. Because when this is all over and you have a solid and complete diagnosis from the vet about all the things wrong with poor Cosmo, you are going to SUE THAT BITCH!! You will have considerable bills to deal with and a lot of time and personal aggrevation (=pain and suffering) and you deserve to be compensated for that and all the bills paid by this person. Previously dead budgie has NOTHING to do with this current situation. There is nothing that little budgie had that could do this to a healthy, happy young Severe Macaw in this short time period. What is going on with Cosmo took a LOT longer than six days in your care to develop. It predates your purchase and her mistakes are not yours to pay for.

A couple of other things, add up all the expenses you have to date and see where you stand. Depending on the law in your state (Florida, I believe) you may still be in the Small Claims section of the courts. Most states will allow you to consult an attorney to prepare your small claims case but you cannot have an attorney represent you in the court. IMHLO, (my humble legal opinion), you need to see an attorney right away to get some advice. Most lawyers will charge between 150 and 400 dollars an hour for the initial consult. Keep that receipt too, because the broker is going to pay for that as well!! Maybe some of the Florida members can suggest an attorney to you that does animal rights work as a main practice or as a sideline. In some cases, the attorney may do the work pro bono, that is without charge. I know that the January Bird Talk magazine had an article on Florida's first female animal law enforcement officer. Maybe you could try to contact her and ask about an attorney referral. You will need some help on the practical/financial side of this issue along with the great bird advice you're getting from the members.

Maybe this little missive sounds aggressive and harsh. And maybe I sound like I'm a little "sue happy" but there are times that attorneys are necessary. Remember that we are guaranteed our rights to redress of grievances by our Constitution and you should excersize that right when there is sufficient reason to do so. Further, here's the bottom line: three states are responsible for about 75% to 80% of the exotic birds in the pet trade, California, Texas and Florida. California has some pretty tough laws regarding animal husbandry, the sale and breeding of exotics of all types and animal welfare in general. Sadly, Texas and Florida have almost none and the abuses in those two states are chronic, egregious and ongoing. Until your state legislatures listen to vets and other animal care experts, nothing will change. But you can and should protect yourself, Cosmo and future birds by putting this person out of business, NOW!!!

All regards and warm best wishes to you and Cosmo,

Doug
(aka Bustersbuddy)

[Cosmo]

What a day so far. We got up at 9 and took Cosmo in to the 2nd vet now. This vet took 2 vials of blood, a throat swab, and examined the fresh poop that Cosmo donated to my jeans. The fecal/microscope exam showed "nothing out of the ordinary". He said it would take 24 hours for the throat swab, and then possibly 48 for the CBC, and a week for the Polyoma/Psittacosis test. I asked him about an antibiotic/antifungal and he said that he wanted to see the test results first. This made me insane. Cosmo weighed 309grams on his scale. He weighed 322 on the other vet scale and 377 (after eating) on the postal scale the bird broker just purchased.

Frustrated, I went into Petsmart to see if I could find a version of Instant Ounces there. I asked the bird guy, who took me to the vet area to check with them, where the vet on duty said she had to see the bird... not to charge me, to just put her hands on him. She apparently has been rescuing and rehibilitating birds most of her life and has a bird/reptile vet hospital in the process of being built - not to far from us. So, Cosmo and family were in the car, and I called them in to the clinic area. She immediately pulled him out of the carrier, gave a variety of pity noises about his lack of weight, offered to take him to her place to fix him up if it couldn't be done at my home, gave him formula (he ate 20cc's for her...she made it very liquidy and easier to swallow... administered it slowly, so he drank it calmly, and held him the whole time) She then gave him a dose of Amoxicillin and gave me the bottle of liquid Amoxicillin to take home (with directions). Then she got us some "Birdy Bacteria" to fight off yeast. I offered to pay her several times, and she said no... that I had just spent $300 on testing that she could have had done for about $80 at a local lab (avian biotech) in FL. She said to call her tonight with a report back on him, and that she will walk me through everything. She seemed to think it was a common infection making it hard for him to swallow, and that he has had it for awhile to get so thin. She seemed to think he would recover... which was hopeful. What a bizarre event after leaving another vet office earlier. This lady vet also has three Severes at home, two B&G's, and a variety of other birds - in addition to those she rehabs at home. She said that she wasn't going to say anything bad about the vet we just came from, but I could tell she wasn't fond of him for whatever reason.

Cosmo took a nice nap after all of the trauma today. He is sitting on his dad right now. I am going to check his crop now, to see if I can get more formula and the Birdy Bacteria in him. Hopefully we will see some improvement.

[The Outlaw]

At last, some real help. I'm very relieved. There is much to be said for a hands on examination by someone knowledgable. I'm praying for this little guy. I love my little Severe and really was getting personally upset for you. Baby birds need to be fully weaned before they become companions. If I were making the laws, no bird would be sold until it had been eating on its own for 30 full days, period. This nonsense about one feeding a day has been lethal far too many times.

Going to a new home is very stressful for babies. I hope this turn of events proves fruitful. Geesh, I'm literally having sympathy pains with you.

[Ginich]

Cosmo, I am going to pm you with my phone number; please call me. I am on the board of FWCAS (Florida West Coast Avian Society) and a vendor of BIRDIEBREAD at many of the bird fairs in FL. Both the Suncoast Avian Society and Greater Brandon Birdclub are having big bird fairs in January. I'm not sure exactly when the Birdbrain Expo is in Orlando but I think that all three should be alerted to this person so that she is not allowed as either a vendor or a breeder because of her bad business practices. I'm with Doug-Save all your receipts and documentation because before this is over you should end up being reimbursed for everything and get your purchase price for Cosmo back too! At this point, it is obvious, you are not going to abandon Cosmo and send him back. Who knew you would find the most knowledgable vet at Petsmart?? I am not a macaw expert but have been glued to this thread for days now, just lurking behind the scenes. But now, maybe there is something I can do to prevent this scenario from happening to someone else. I might also be able to refer you to an animal rights attorney.

[Lisa B]

Originally Posted by Ginich

Cosmo, I am going to pm you with my phone number; please call me. I am on the board of FWCAS (Florida West Coast Avian Society) and a vendor of BIRDIEBREAD at many of the bird fairs in FL. Both the Suncoast Avian Society and Greater Brandon Birdclub are having big bird fairs in January. I'm not sure exactly when the Birdbrain Expo is in Orlando but I think that all three should be alerted to this person so that she is not allowed as either a vendor or a breeder because of her bad business practices. I'm with Doug-Save all your receipts and documentation because before this is over you should end up being reimbursed for everything and get your purchase price for Cosmo back too! At this point, it is obvious, you are not going to abandon Cosmo and send him back. Who knew you would find the most knowledgable vet at Petsmart?? I am not a macaw expert but have been glued to this thread for days now, just lurking behind the scenes. But now, maybe there is something I can do to prevent this scenario from happening to someone else. I might also be able to refer you to an animal rights attorney.

and thats why we are all here and post.....because someone behind the scenes is watching and waiting to help in thier area of Expertise! Kudos Gini!

[Cosmo]

Thank you everyone! I do know that this broker does go to the bird shows and expos. I would love to chat with you. I think it stinks when people try to be good and trusting, only to be taken advantage of by others. (There is so much more I could tell you on this.) My husband and I were talking earlier today about how could we possibly keep this from happening to other people?

I just called the Petsmart vet to check in with her on Cosmo. She said if we don't see any improvement with him by tomorrow, she will take him in and tube feed him for a few days. She said she just wants to help him and build a clientele in the process, so she won't charge me. I told her I would be happy to pay her... I just want this baby well now.