What would you do?

[Addicted to Tequila]

OK... voice of sanity needing to chip in!

First off... I used to be the manager of an "evil petstore". There are animals at a petstore that often are considered "mascots" and may or may not be for sale (as some stores have policies that EVERYTHING is for sale... they may put an inflated price on it though. I believe this to be the case here.)

Often, these animals are in cages all day. What you may not know is that they are given more one on one time than many of our pets. It takes a good hour or two every morning and at least that long each night when the store is not open to the customers to do all that needs be done. The animals are often played with and passed off between employees during this time. Many cannot come out durring the day for insurance reasons. A two year old that has his fingers chomped off while poking them through a cage is a different matter than one being chased across the store by an angry 'Too... or Nile monitor (I could tell you a funny story about that!).

You say that the cage is a good size. You were concerned he only has three toys. But how often are they changed out and replaced? My birds rarely have more than 5 toys at a time... and HUGE cages. I want them to play with the toys... not have them be cage decorations. I switch them every few days for my active guys and Dudley... well, that is a different story. He only likes destructibles which are replaced constantly (some parts each day!)

He had "only" pellets and seed to eat. The fact that he had pellets makes me think this bird is fed better than a good portion... especially for a shop! If you go to my house right now you would find the same situation. But in the dishwasher are three dishes that had fruit in them this morning, and 2 that had pasta in them last night. And I am sure that the Apple-cinnamon Cherrios are LONG gone from their pellet cups! LOL
The store cannot leave fresh fruits and veggies out long as it attracts pests and also... it can get bacteria in it (petstores are breeding grounds for bacteria... even spotless ones!) But you may not know what he is feed before and after hours.

Poop... lots of it. Really? I mean... Macaw poo is um... well... they ARE big birds! Are we talking a six inch tall stack here? Or did you visit at 7pm and cages are cleaned nightly? (I always preferred mornings... but I am a bit OCD).
I know that if I wanted, I could change the paper once a week for my GCC cage and it would STILL look better than Dudley's at the end of one day! He can have a good inch deep sculpture by the end of the day!

As for the plucking. There are members here that own pluckers. Does this mean they are not taking good care of their birds? There are an awful lot of things that lead to, exacerbate, and worsen plucking. This bird may have come to the store that way and the store bought the bird from some dorkus just to "save" it! I know I did this more than once. Once with a MexRedHead Zon that had flown into a window and would be a special needs bird and unsellable.

I really do hate to play devil's advocate, and I certainly cannot say any of this is the case... as I was not there. But I do want to make everyone pause and think for just a moment or two.

Looks like a few beat me to it! I had to type this between orders... it is Monday Number Two here at work today! LOL

[mmr]

Originally Posted by Irish

I know people who are the best bird keepers you could ever hope for who have birds who pluck, despite thousands spent on vets, food, behaviorists, etc. You can't assume that a plucked bird is an abused or neglected bird simply because of the plucked body. Some of them are loved dearly and treated very well.

Thank you so much for thinking I am a great parrot owner Irish!! lol

My U2 is a feather mutilator and plucker. She is 11 years old now and she started over 8 years ago when she lived with a terrible, terrible man who threw shoes at her and hit her with stick. She lived like that for 8 year EVERYDAY. She started plucking before age 1. I got her when she was 9.5-10 years old. I can tell you she is the happiest too I know and ever has been in her lifetime. But she still mutilates her feather shafts on her wings, tail and plucks her chest at times. The vet said when I first go ther she has been doing it so long she bet 100% Ellie would never stop!!! But since I have had her we have 2 beautiful LONG wing feathers growing out of her right wing and 3 LONG tail feathers, (her foster mom says they are the longest she has ever had). Her feathers on her chest are coming back in alos.

So ALL THAT being said they can come around. Although it has taken me well over a year before I even started seeing progress!
So She isn't perfect feather (she looks like alittel raggedy too) but I also think she is the most beautiful too I have ever seen, just because of her horrible life and the physical and mental abuse she went through, you couldn't find a more loveing and trusting baby! Thus Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Best of luck tonight!

[mels95yj]

Thanks Robyn for a little sanity check. Lord knows I needed it. One of my original questions was "Am I just a novice bird owner overreacting". That definitely could be the case. I do admit that I got over-emotional seeing the macaw. I have since, with the help of everyone here, calmed down to think more clearly. I never had the intentions of going down and blowing up at the petstore. That's just not my style.

The petstore has definitely gone downhill lately in regards to all their upkeep. I stopped buying coral from them for several of these reasons. That still doesn't indicate that this bird is neglected or not cared for properly.

I do plan on going down to inquire more about the macaw. Not so much for "saving" it, but to possibly purchase a new family member. I honestly thank everyone for their input and knowledge. I hope that, if not soon, I'll someday come here for some more knowledge on my own macaw. Again, thank you for your help.

Mel

[Addicted to Tequila]

BTW...

The local breeder here in VA has B&G babies for $750 if you finish handfeeding (once a day). They will train you.

Fully weaned they are around $1200.

Cage will be at least $500 as stated.

FULL blood panel and check up is about $500 per bird.

[KimM]

I agree. Sounds like you received excellent advice here. I would go in and ask some "innocent" questions about the macaw. Why is he pulling his feathers out? etc, etc. Kind of go "blonde". (Yes I am blonde so I can say that.LOL). You may find more answers playing "dumb" than in an accusatory way.
The normal cost is anywhere from $1200 to 1600 for a B&G. I would find out as much as I can. As others said, you never know, he may be there for other reasons. I know the shop where I got Newt and Elliot take in rescues as well as on consignment because their owners for whatever reason are not able to care for them any longer. If you're really interested, do your homework on the little guy first and I would suggest getting a vet check "before" you take him home if you decide to get him.

[Monica]

I got a 40" x 30" x 62" cage for $250 off of Craigslist. There's also Kijiji and local ads.

Large birds are usually *NOT* recommended for first time bird owners, particularly amazons, cockatoos, and macaws. What is especially *NOT* recommended would be second hand birds who may have their own set of issues, and thus more difficult than a young handraised baby. However, that's not to say that there haven't been people who bought a large parrot as their first bird and had things work out! And surely, there are people who get second hand birds given to them when no one else wanted the bird!

I was 13 when I got Noel. I had been into birds for a little over a year, and besides chickens or other farm birds, my family had no bird experience whatsoever (and I wasn't raised on a farm-before my time). Noel bit, mutilated herself, and screamed. I'll tell you first hand, that is *NOT* the type of creature you give to a 13 year old! Back then (which wasn't that long ago!) the internet was still "new", especially when it came to pet care. I could hardly find out any information on Noel's species (cherry headed conure), and the most information about plucking or mutilating said it was gout. She hasn't been diagnosed with gout. Nowadays, Noel loves kisses and will lean towards me to get a kiss (wasn't always like that!), only bites if she's feeling unstable or maybe she's mad, and she puts up with me! But she remains a mostly hands off type of bird. She enjoys going outside to our apple tree, and she'll follow me (she can't fly) if I call to her, but she just not human orientated.

I can't tell you *not* to get this macaw, if you are seriously considering it, as I believe you have what it may take! Your doing the research, and your willing to ensure the bird has any medical attention it may need.

[Irish]

Monica, I don't know if you know that my very first bird was an adult male Moluccan Cockatoo :-).

I loved that bird like a child, and he loved me like a wife (yikes! LOL!). He was a gentle soul (if LOUD), and oh-so-patient with my bumbling and learning--after all, I lived in a tiny town, and no one else I knew had a Cockatoo! When he died, it was like losing a child, and I couldn't even THINK about another bird for over 10 years after his passing.

I guess I was one of the lucky ones. Had I known then what I know now, I would never have taken on that "second hand" bird. But I'm OH-so-glad I did!

Do I have a point? Who knows? LOL! I guess it would be that, although a second hand bird with issues may not be the easiest first large parrot for a beginner, it's not impossible, with luck, perseverance, and especially nowadays, the availability of knowledgeable help. It might not be easy, but if the right person is up to it, it's not impossible. Figuring out if you're the "right" person is what takes the time and soul searching!

Or you could just stumble into it like I did, and hope for the best. Probably not the best way to go about it, though :-).

[Monica]

Irish, it's stuff like that that I remember! Such as another member walked into a petstore to get a dog scooper, and walked out with a cockatiel! Turns out, it's really an umbrella cockatoo, and they ended up being fantastic parronts! They even went as far as creating their own business selling bird toys! And another member who has had their scarlet macaw, Tiki since she was 16. I know that Scarlets are said to be one of the more difficult macaws...

Situations like that may not turn out for the best, (easy to think about all the people who impulse buy an animal, then can't care for it so many weeks or months down the road - for whatever reason) but if your responsible, and your willing to put all that you've got into the care, then things CAN work out.

[mels95yj]

I just wanted to let everyone know what I've found out. It's not a B&G afterall. It's a Military macaw. It's 7 years old, and the petstore took it from a couple that got mixed up in drugs. The woman had raised it from a baby, but I guess got mixed up with the wrong crowd. So, she either sold it or gave it to the petstore. They have had it for about 8 months. They told me it was plucking when they got it, but not that bad. They had it next to a B&G, but after they sold the B&G, the Military started the excessive plucking. It is not hand tamed, so noone has had it out of the cage for the 8 months they've had it. She told me they just didn't have the time to devote to the bird.

They wanted $1200 for it, but would take $1000 for the bird only or $1100 for the bird and cage, but for tonight only. The wife and I has thought long and hard about it, and we think this may be over our heads. We hate to leave it there, but we don't think we have the knowledge nor experience at this time to truely do this bird justice.

I just wanted to let everybody know that, while they aren't going out of their way to help it, they are not the underlying cause of the condition of this bird. I do feel better about that. Thanks again for everyone's advice on this.

Mel

[FoxersArtist]

Awww, it sounds like that poor bird really needs to be somewhere where it could be rehabilitated before being adopted out. I hope the right person comes along who knows what he needs. You are awesome for opening your heart up to the bird, even if you could not open up your home.
-Anna