Baby is pulling out Spikes tail feathers...advice please!!

[kathyellen]

Hello.
Baby is our blue and gold born 07-08-04
Spike is about 3 months younger than she is. They are caged together and have gotten along very lovingly from the day we brought spike home.

The day before yesterday when we went out to start the day, we noticed some tail feathers in the bottom of their cage ( there had been 1 or 2 in the last week or so) I didn't think much of it at first, went off to work, when we came back my husband was the first to realize that spike had almost all his tail feathers out!!! They look like they came out pretty cleanly, but then they look kinda chewed on. Still I wasn't too concerned, they seem happy and healthy....
Then yesterday... ALL Spikes tail feathers are gone :( I am pretty darn sad, he looks so ....sad......)

Well we took a closer look at baby and realize that she is NOT getting the same amount of attention from us that she was used to. There have been some changes in the flock ( addtions, and a new bird room)so... we immediately started giving her the personal attention ( and taking her out on her own)...She actually has been pretty grumpy. I am hoping this will be the answer to this delima and we won't have to separate them.They also seem to be molting as well......little feathers everywhere.
I have been giving them lots of little showers. We are considering getting another cage and separating them....

I went back and read the threads in the Macaw section, found some adivce on putting plexiglass in the cage to separate them, they don't seem to be fighting, they both are eating... I was hoping someone..(..maybe, The Outlaw) might have experienced something similar and might have some advice for us...

Thanks! Kathy

[The Outlaw]

Kathy:

I think I can explain exactly the same thing here. I kept Baby Sailor and Dreamer together for many months until I noticed that Dreamie was starting to bullly Sailor. He would snatch the best stuff out of all the food dishes before he'd allow Sailor to eat, and just generally push him around. I noticed that Sailor was over groomed and wasn't gaining weight at the pace I'd expected. I put them in seperate cages with communal playtime on big gyms and in the bird playroom. This stopped all of the negative stuff and Sailor just plain bloomed. He became the bird he was supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, they HAVE to be together during the day to preen and play, but not during meals or at night. I suggest that you seperate them before the weaker one gets hurt.

Dreamer is about 6 months older than Sailor and both had rough starts. Still, they adore each other. They just can't be roomies.

THE OUTLAW

[kathyellen]

Thank you,
it just makes me sad ( but...it's not about me, is it?)

We have a nice big cage that will be opeining up in a few weeks...I will keep an eye on them in the mean time and separate them at feeding time...

thanks again for the quick response...

[TooLover]

I believe that each fid should have their own personal space. My b&g's are in a divided cage. I, also, have noticed that Tinker bullies Elwood at meal time and I have had to separate them while eating.

[Winged_Victory]

We have quite a few macaws and most are housed two in a cage. All ours seem to do very well together. Hope yours improve so they can be happy together!


Pics of some of ours:http://public.fotki.com/WingedVictory/

gary

[Winged_Victory]

Originally Posted by Jodi

I think that if you have 2 birds together and one is being dominant over the other it is time to place them in seperate cages. I feel in most cases they do need their space. I don't know what sex your birds are, but that is always something to think about as well. They can bond very strongly if opposite sex and you can have issues with handling them.

-Gary, I don't know what you do or how you do it, but you are one of the few people that has birds that get along so well. I have several that will tolerate each other, but they could never share a cage. What age range are your birds? My 3 large macaws have seperate cages and will sit on a playstand sometimes, but if I get near them they are fighting over who gets to me first.

I agree if they are fighting or not getting along they should be in separate cages. We have let our bird choose who they want to be with and it has worked. We have a Caninde that lives with a Severe, a Hy and Redfront, Buffons and Ruby, YC and Hahn's. Most of our birds are the same sex when in the same cage. We do however have a 10-12 year old B&G with a 10-12 year old scarlet and they are the opposite sex but love being handled by humans. They are cage friends only. Our goal has been to make the best possible life for our birds and if they like other birds so be it. All our cages are large and they have plenty of room. When out we may have ten birds in one room and they all get along with the exception of our Hawkheads that do not like Blue and Golds, but like all the other birds, go figure.

gary

This has worked for us and may or may not work for others.

[The Outlaw]

Gary:

I don't know how you do it either. I wanted to cage them in two's just to make less work for me. However, my birds don't even like being moved into different cages anymore. I used to rotate them all the time so that they got to play with every toy and get different views. I noticed the change when all of them were finally over 2 years old. Now, they will squawk if I accidentally put them in the wrong cages at night. My BGs all seem to have preferences for certain cages. I did, however, let them choose which cage would be theirs.

Also, I have to be careful about who's allowed to play with whom. All the the BGs get along and my TAG gets along with all birds here. My least bird friendly bird is Chi Chi the Severe. He simply starts too many fights. Even my quaker is better behaved with other birds.

Perhaps because your birds are in cages so much of the time that's why having a companion works so well. Jodi and I have birds that are out most of the day, every day. In any event, your birds look great and seem very happy, so its obvious that you're doing something right.

By the way, did you ever finish your outdoor aviary? I'd love to see photos.

THE OUTLAW

[kathyellen]

Hey Everyone
Thanks so much for your replies.
This past weekend we separated Baby and Spike. Baby is obviously molting and have major issues. She did cuddle with me last night for quite awile. I think they will be happier now, and they can play together when we are with them.
Do you know how long it takes to grow back tail feathers?
thanks again.
kathy

[The Outlaw]

Kathy:

I just noticed your last question. Birds usually molt tail feathers at least once a year, usually twice. If there are still remnants of old feather sheaths in place, they will have to molt out before new feathers can appear. If the bird removes them, they will grow in very quickly.

Please don't pull them out, however. Its tempting, but its unnecessarily painful. I had a guy try to sell me a beautiful GW he'd had for a year. He kept him in a too small cage and the bird was constantly mauling his tail feathers. He would take him to the groomer and have the stubs removed. As a result, he had one very hand shy GW. In fact, he was the ONLY nasty GW I've ever met. Poor baby.

THE OUTLAW