Caught in a nasty mess with my female shepherd

[magdalena]

Some dogs have bad genes. You would put down a dog that had its brain on the outside of its head when it was born, sharpness and red line thinking that come with bad nerves can't always be trained away just like the mutant head gene can't be 'fixed'.

[mmr]

but isn't it worth getting checked out and know for sure?? I would at least try it first! But that is just me!

[magdalena]

Oh I agree but I can also tell you that most dog behaviorists are crap and he would need to be looking at protection specific behaviorist/training and probably knows his dog best at this point.

[magdalena]

Jag I don't know who you got your dog from but I know my contract for my working line stated I could return him for temperament problems, his contract guaranteed him for pretty much everything. Maybe you could talk to the breeder?

[Jag]

Originally Posted by mmr

Please take this without hurt feelings, but coming from someone with aggressive dog experienc:




I have to disagree. Have you have her evaluated by a behavioralist?
NO I have worked with behavioralists...


dogs don't make decisions. They are capable of making rational decisions. They go with what they know and learn from the pack Keeping her away from strangers isn't helping her to learn to be social. Dogs need to be socialized from day 1. Even taking them out in the car to the store, to parks around others.
She was socialized, I'm not new to this concept or training. Yes, GSD's DO make decisions. That is how they are police dogs. They decide who is 'OK' and who isn't. My male can decide who is who, my female puts NO thought or the wrong thought into it.

I think you both need training. It will just take a lot of work and a really good behavioralist!
I've worked with many different trainers, and also with the breeder's input.

Not being there to see it , but from what you are saying I would have her evaluated first before making any snappy decisions. Also if you know you are taking her to the vet or you have company over it is your responsibility as a "good" dog owner to put a muzzle on her as you know her history! Have you tried a shock collar? You can use them in a positive way and not just all about pain. It is about behavior modification. When you say weak head, is that your oppinion? Or has she been officially diagnosed with mental issues?
It's not a snappy decision. She's bitten before. I have a muzzle which is on here when we leave the house. I have used a shock collar to try behavior mod. with her. It's not just my opinion, again, I have talked to her breeder and also a breeder of DDR GSD's.

ALL animals give off some sort of signals before they attack/bite etc. Same as birds. What is her body language telling you before and after? Doe her ears go back, the hair on her back stand up, lip curling, very low growel, tail between her leggs? Like I said just as birds, dogs also give of pre signals for us to catch!

She SHOULD give off some sort of signal before she attacks...but she doesn't. I (again) am not new to training, GSD's, or dogs in general. I can read them very well. This is how I stop fights before they start in my house. This dog is just off. She gives no clue. She can be perfectly at ease, then attack. NO bark, NO hackles, NO growl, nothing. If she gave a signal, I could correct her before she makes a move. She gives off nothing. Again, when she did this the first time (at one year) I talked to breeders, trainers, (including those who do behavior modification) and the best advice I got when I took her to one place was to 'keep her away from people'.

[Jag]

Originally Posted by magdalena

Some dogs have bad genes. You would put down a dog that had its brain on the outside of its head when it was born, sharpness and red line thinking that come with bad nerves can't always be trained away just like the mutant head gene can't be 'fixed'.

This is true. She isn't bad with nerves... nerves of steel. That is one of the things I loved about her. No shyness, not sharp. This is pure 'out of no where' attack mode...she's a red line dog who acts like a lab in the house. It's the strangest crap I've seen. The breeder agreed that it sounded like she had a bad head. I told him that I was going to keep her and try to work with her and just keep her away from people. This is what's happened a couple years after that. Just no damn warning. It's a shame, but she could easily kill someone at 110 lbs.

[Congobongo]

I adopted a doberman from rescue that had been abused badly. I found out the hard way he hated motorcycles and anything on wheels, including kids on bikes. He bit a kid, not bad and not a vicious attack but he still punctured the skin. I had to pay almost 1K in the bills because although it was really superficial they went to the emergency room. I also had the local dog warden and the health dept. come to see all my vet records and licenses etc. on him. I was lucky all was up to date and in order.

I do still have him but I am single and I do NOT take him out to the dog park or anything anymore. I can't trust him. He is great with my birds, my cats and other dogs but anything on wheels...no way.

However, if I had a family and visitors etc. I probably would not be able to keep him and need to put him down or find a special arrangement for him.

[Congobongo]

I forgot to say, it is not so much how we feel but we need to consider the damage they could inflict on someone else, particularly a child. And that is most likely the deal breaker.

[magdalena]

If she's 110 pounds she can't be pure working line, there's got to be some american line or showline in her or she was bred wrong (or is fat, no offense) a good working line breeder breeds for conformation as well because smaller dogs are more agile for working and a female shouldn't be more than 65-75 pounds. You have a monster and a face biting one yikes.

[BirdieNumNums]

I have worked with aggressive dogs before. You should get her evaluated by a behaviorist. Don't take her to be put down just yet. I agree with mmr. You need to be an extremely responsible dog owner here. When people are over, regardless of where she is in the house, she NEEDS to be muzzle. I would go with a basket muzzle, a little more comfortable for her. Working at a vet clinic, there are people who have dogs like don't even let the owners touch the dog. But, these people have their dogs slightly sedated and muzzled before they even get to the vet. They are committed to the dog, as you should be.

What if the girl hadn't even gone past the baby gate? At 110 lbs, your dog could step over a baby gate. One day, she might decide that she doesn't want to be confined and jumps over. She could do serious damage to the people downstairs that expect her to be away. That's why a muzzle is necessary even if she is confined.

Another thing, make signs. Most everyone has signs to protect their birds from flying out, why not your dog? Post signs of where she is in the house, do not open signs and tell EVERYONE the rules every time they enter 'her' territory.

And create doggie airlocks. If she gets out from behind one baby gate, make sure there is a door in her way to the rest of the house. Or better yet, get a metal kennel. Usually, they are custom-made and stainless steel. They are expensive but could be a life saver. Keep her in there when people are over (possibly even muzzled). Keep her muzzled when you take her to potty on a leash. She needs to be taken through the house at least 10 feet from the visitors. And they should be warned she is coming downstairs so as not to rile her. I would double leash her too, have you on one leash and a family member on another. She is big enough to get away.

Even though, management is hard, you made a commitment to her for the rest of her life. However, you need to ask what the rest of the house residents think. Your son probably wants friends over all the time but is afraid they'll get hurt.

Also, you may think she doesn't give you signals but she has ever since she started. The signals are "not a family member=attack!". That should be a pretty big signal, you know she's going to do it. So, take extreme precautions.

You may think she's hard-wired but she has also gotten away with it for so long that it is habitual.

Please consider everything before putting her down.

BTW, how is your other dog?