Caught in a nasty mess with my female shepherd

[Jag]

Originally Posted by hollyhawkz

I used to have Akitas and help with Akita rescue, so I know well the "strangers standing over and looking them in the eye stance" is not a good thing with alpha dogs.

We fostered one female that I ended up using a muzzle on when strangers were around...... She hated that muzzle soooo much that if I said be good or I'll get the muzzle, she obeyed. She would go sulk in a corner and leave people alone. I don't know if that would work for you or not. Every dog is different. Some times it works as a deterrent, some times it is a good precaution for a liability risk.

I would never use a muzzle unless absolutely necessary. The other thing that I would use is the wolf correction. I found it worked incredibly well, but like everything else it has become a topic of controversy as to the effectiveness.

I must say I am surprised that the woman having knowledge of dogs stood over yours like that.

I was also surprised about that. I did not want to be disrespectful to her, as she was elderly, and I'd been quite blunt about my wishes. I have a muzzle for Kenya, but when I put it on her it's almost like 'stirring the pot' alerting her that there is some reason why I'm expecting her to be aggressive. At the very least, if there are people in the house and she HAS to come out for some reason, she'll be muzzled. If she has to eat, it will have to be in the laundry room. It's a shame that she won't turn around, and even more so when she's so sweet and well behaved in the house without strangers, and even outside of the house around strangers on and off. It's too bad she can't comprehend the situation she's putting me and herself in. My male makes such a big show...barks like crazy at the door and fence...yet he's very friendly with strangers and other animals. When we took him in to the vets with his paw torn up (and twice since then for check ups and bandage changes) if he made any noise at all it was only whining... and allowed two different people to handle his very hurt foot without even a hint of nastiness.

My original Gunner was an alpha male, and I didn't have half the problems with him that I'm having with Kenya, because like a normal dog, he would give warnings and was predicatable.

[LoryLady]

Tough situation......the decision of whether to put one of my babies down for the safety of other people.... it would be a gut wrenching thing to have to decide and you sound like you're taking this really seriously.

Jag, have you ever seen this show called The Dog Whisperer with this guy Caesar Milan? I just remember seeing some episodes with dogs that had a similar kind of aggression with visitors to the home (fine with family) and he has a lot of useful tips/info. It's actually a good show and not gimmicky....maybe watching a few episodes featuring aggressive dogs could help in some way? He makes so much sense when he talks about how dogs see the family as the pack. Where they see themselves in the pack is a direct indicator of how they will behave when outsiders enter the den. Also, he has really good advice for the people entering the home and how they must behave around the dog to speak in the dog's language, so it understands the pack situation. I think he mentions never to acknowledge the dog when you walk into someone's house - so in this situation, if someone walks in, stares her directly in the eye and stands over her, or maybe they walk in and try and be friendly with her and it sends the opposite signal intended to provide!

Like what I'm saying is YOU could be doing everything you possibly can in the home to control her. But when you add the variable of someone else around, they could be giving off subtle dog language things that set her off. Something in her says 'attack' even if you can't see her perceived threat, or what has set her off.

But I do agree that if she can't be controlled, it does just take that one time for her to seriously attack and cause injury to someone - you're liable for that and I think you are being really responsible by having this discussion and thinking this through.

German Shepherds get a lot of hate, I think they're beautiful dogs, one of my favourite breeds! But I could never own one, just because they wouldn't fit in with my lifestyle. But the few that I've known have been great dogs.

Whatever you decide, if you get another dog at some point maybe a different breed could be an option, it may fit in with your lifestyle better.

How is she with your fids?

[LoryLady]

Oh, just two things after re-reading....

1. It's good that you're muzzling her. Your feelings of her feeling that bringing the muzzle out is 'stirring the pot' - are they feelings of guilt maybe? A lot of the time (I do it constantly) we put human emotions in our pets, or project something I'm feeling onto them. Sometimes it's there, sometimes probably not. Also, as a parent sometimes tough love is the only way. Eg: It might not feel nice to muzzle and tie her up securely, but that's just tough love, when option B is putting her down, you know? When you look at the options, if she's tied up and muzzled then not only are your guests safe but she's safe too. But it wouldn't be ideal for that to be permanent IF she can adopt some behaviour modification.

2. The other phrase that went around a bit was a 'weak head' and there's no scientific basis to back that phrase in itself. It's not a term I've ever heard of....least not for dogs. It just kind of sounds like a sweeping statement that puts all onus on her and overlooks the possibilty that her environment could somehow be bringing these behaviours about. To just say 'it's her because she has a weak head' doesn't help to uncover the insight behind her behaviour..... it means you don't/can't do anything about her behaviour because it's how she's been wired and I'm not convinced that's true.

I just say this because before putting a dog down I believe it deserves every chance and avenue to help control/modify behaviour first. After all, if she could speak and understand our language, then you could explain how her life would be much happier if she stopped attacking strangers!

BUT if in your heart of hearts you know that she poses a danger and you've exhausted the other options, then you know what is best, because they are a powerful dog and a full attack on someone would be very serious.....

[LoryLady]

Oh, sorry for post whoring too - but just saw that Caesar Milan has a dog behaviour book called 'Be The Pack Leader' which could be good!