Question for Jardine owners....

[MusicalFeathers]

Hi guys,

I had a post on wanting an ekkie so bad until I came across the Jardine parrots. Have been doing lots of research and like them a lot and the breeder I usually visit happened to have two babies and she never ever has any. She does not want to sell them because her husband wants them but because she likes me so much she will sell one to me if i wanted one!
They are so adorable. He/she is five weeks and is already chirping up a storm. So cute. I rubbed the featherless head!

Anyway, do these birds really have that bad reputation of being bitey and nippy? If so, is it worse than a green cheek (well, considering the beak size!)?
And I know about the Aspergillus and Vit. A deficiency..etc. However...I've read you need to take lots of time to get these birds to not bite so much.

Just wanted to hear experiences of some Jardine owners.

Thanks guys.

[USSLancelot]

I just posted a new thread in a different forum on here asking a lot of the same questions for a lot of the same reasons. I recently put a deposit down on a Greater Jardine's that hasn't even hatched yet but should be fully weaned around Jan. or so. Like you, I did a lot of initial research that made Jardine's seem like the perfect parrot. Then I put the deposit down and continued to do more research that said lots of not-so-perfect things like their jealousy, possessiveness, and mostly their strong nippiness. I've yet to hear any advice from Jardine's owners but i myself have come to some conclusions.

First, poicephalus birds have only been readily available for the past 15 years or so. As such, there doesn't seem to be a lot of info. about them. For instance, if you read stuff that was written about Senegals 10 yrs. ago, everyone was touting them as the perfect parrot but much more recent stuff seems to say they can be little terrors. Poicephalus keeping is kinda in its infancy and I think a lot about them simply isn't well established yet. A lot of people who own them seem to have to learn as they go but it does appear that much of that initial info. that was written when they first began to be readily available (the stuff about them being perfect parrots) might not be entirely accurate. These birds definitely seem to go through behavioral changes as they mature and some of it doesn't seem like it's gonna be altogether enjoyable.

It seems like Jardine's are little angels up until about 6-18 months of age or so. Then they get nippy or jealous or whatever. This goes on for a while but will eventually subside if dealt with correctly. Now what follows is strictly my opinion with nothing to back it up but to me it makes sense. I think a lot of owners in general let their baby parrots get away with everything because, at that stage, they're so well behaved. They let them perch on their shoulders, they let them play on top of their cages, they keep them flighted, etc., not realizing that such freedoms might spell trouble down the road as they mature. I believe that whatever you give a parrot when it's a baby, as it matures, it will go through a stage where it tries to take more. Certainly not true in every case but it does seem to happen with some regularity. Children have a tendency to be the same.

I think with all parrots, but especially with Jardine's, it seems important to establish guidelines very early on. Like from the first day he comes home. For me that means things like, no shoulder, no being on top of the cage, keeping his wings clipped, etc.. At least until he's a few years old and an adult. Instead of giving him a yard and then having him try to take a mile, I plan on giving him a foot and hoping that he'll only try to take a yard. Just as children benefit from knowing early on what's expected of them I think parrots do as well.

If his beaking is still acceptable to me but consistently harder than it was a week ago, then I plan on trying to correct it then and there. If his noise level is still acceptable to me but louder than a week ago, again I plan to correct it before it develops into screaming.

I've also heard great things about clicker training with birds and plan to start my Jardine's on that as early as possible. So many people seem to wait until their birds behavior is a problem before they try to teach it any behavior modification. To me that doesn't make a lot of sense. Clicker training is all about positive reinforcement. It can be used to teach the bird and develop your relationship and it can also be used to correct unwanted behavior. My thinking with the Jardine's is that if I already have him well trained with clicker training before he hits adolescence, if behavior problems do arise, the clicker training will already be in place to help correct his unwanted behavior. It seems like a lot of people take a rather passive approach to behavior in parrots. They let them do everything until they start doing something they don't want them to do. Seems kinda weird to me.

A baby parrot can have a very happy life without being allowed to do things that may lead to aggression as it matures. It doesn't need to be on your shoulder, it doesn't need to be on top of its cage, it doesn't need to fly freely throughout the house. Granted, some parrots do all these things and more and still end up as saints, but a lot don't. With the way that Jardine's seem to like to push as they mature, I just don't wanna take the chance with certain things until he's an adult.

Ultimately I may do all these things and still end up with a little tyrant. I don't know. I don't think anyone does. But it does seem like setting guidelines very early on is gonna give me a leg-up when it comes to his adolescence. I'm just gonna have to wait and see.

[Iochroma]

I gave up on Jardine's. I am no beginner. I worked for years in bird-specialist stores, back in the days I hand tamed dozens of wild-caught birds ( including lots of greys and mini-macaws ), and I don't fuss too much at the occasional bite that breaks the skin, but Jardine's are different. They just bite too hard and with no curbing methods seeming to work, I just gave up and gave the bird back to a breeder. My bird was a domestic baby, sweet-natured when he wanted to be, happy, talkative, funny, and prone to biting like a snapping turtle for no reason I could perceive.
I suggest you talk to long-term owners of adult Jardine's before getting a baby. It seems like more of this species than not are pissers.
I can take the Amazon temperment, and I have lost more than my share of blood to the surgical strikes of Greys, and I still love 'em, but no thanks to any more Jardine's. They are different.

[MusicalFeathers]

Oh man....that sucks to hear. I asked the breeder that I visit if what they say about Jardine's biting behavior is true and she said it isn't much worse than the rep Green cheeks carry for being "nippy". I'm confused. It's hard to find anyone who owns a Jardine for a long enough period. They are so gorgeous and I'm sure they have their beautiful and positive traits but I don't want to get myself into something that may turn out completely unpleasant.

Every bird is different...and they have their own response to different people so I hate to conclude anything when it comes to them but it does get me very worried especially since I have not ruled them out as my next bird!

::sigh::

[USSLancelot]

I actually have talked to some long-term Jardine's owners - people who have had theirs for 5-10 years. There's pretty general consensus that they go through a biting stage but there's also consensus that they do eventually get over it. I've also run across people who have experience with many types of birds and cite The Jardine's as one of their favorites. My breeder also says their nippyness isn't any worse than other parrots. I'm not sure if that applies only to the Greater Jardine's (which is what I'm getting), or all Jardine's, or is simply a breeder trying to downplay any negative traits about a type of bird they breed.

It sounds like the above post is based on the person's experience with one Jardine's and they're using that one bird to typify the entire species. Maybe that's accurate but also maybe it isn't.

Jardine's have really only been around in American aviculture for the last 10 years or so. Not very long at all. They're still very few of them around. I think a lot of the questions you have about them you just might not find an answer for. If, like me, you do ultimately decide on a Jardine's you may well have to just bite the bullet, jump in, and find out the answers on your own.

Which might not be a bad thing. I've learned that parrot people are very highly opinionated and they almost never agree on anything. Someone will tell you Eclectus are quiet and the very next person will tell you they knew one that did nothing but scream. It's impossible to take what anyone says about a parrot species as gospel because the second you do someone will come along and tell you everything that person said simply isn't true.

Ultimately, the decision is up to you. Jardine's are beautiful birds. And I've not come across anything or anybody who's contradicted the claim that Jardine's are relatively quiet, and don't have a panic attack the second you're out of their sight - both of which are important for me. I'll find things out as I go I guess.

[Iochroma]

If it helps to clarify, I had my Greater Jardine's for the first five years of his life; I've also re-homed two Lesser Jardine's for other people. They are very different species, but they all had biting issues. My breeder concurrs. Sorry to be a bummer.

[MusicalFeathers]

Originally Posted by USSLancelot

If, like me, you do ultimately decide on a Jardine's you may well have to just bite the bullet, jump in, and find out the answers on your own.

How close are you to getting one? Will it be a baby? My breeder has two beautiful babies still weaning and they sure are noisy little babies! It's funny because I hold them and they chirp and squawk but I bring their heads close to my forehead and they get really quiet! it is so cute.

The ones I'm looking at are the Lesser Jardine's. I'd love it if you let me know how it goes as far as your decision! It's not extremely common to find much people interested in getting a Jardine so would love to know how it goes!...I have to go visit my breeder again so I am still not very sure what I want....

[USSLancelot]

Originally Posted by Iochroma

If it helps to clarify, I had my Greater Jardine's for the first five years of his life; I've also re-homed two Lesser Jardine's for other people. They are very different species, but they all had biting issues. My breeder concurrs. Sorry to be a bummer.

Did you get rid of your Greater because of his biting? I've really come to the conclusion that when it comes to Jardine's it's nearly impossible to arrive at any sort of consensus as regards their behaviors.

For instance, I just had about an hour phone conversation with Jean Pattison in Fl.. She's known as the African Queen on the internet. She's been breeding African species exclusively for about 25 years - Lesser Jardine's for about 10. We talked and talked and talked about the biting issue. She keeps in contact with a lot of people who buy her birds. She was very honest with me and told me that a lot of people have had issues with biting but also a lot haven't. And even though she only breeds Lesser's she did tell me that strictly in terms of a pet, she believes the Greater's are far superior. She took care of two Greater's for a long time and said they were absolutely fantastic birds in every way..

I dunno but I think I'm through with asking people for advice and opinions on Jardine's. I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get one. What happens happens. I'll either need to stock up on gauze, band-aids, and butterfly closures, or I won't. I'm certainly game for finding out.

[MusicalFeathers]

Well, good luck then. Keep us posted....when you do get one!

[Iochroma]

Originally Posted by USSLancelot

Did you get rid of your Greater because of his biting?

For instance, I just had about an hour phone conversation with Jean Pattison in Fl... She... told me that a lot of people have had issues with biting but also a lot haven't. And even though she only breeds Lesser's she did tell me that strictly in terms of a pet, she believes the Greater's are far superior. She took care of two Greater's for a long time and said they were absolutely fantastic birds in every way..

Yes, I gave the Greater to a breeder after one particularly bite-y month. Sad thing, but I worked at behavior modification, and I just don't think the bird was understanding what he was doing. The bird is still very tame, but is not a very good flyer in the flight cage. No offspring yet.

Jean Pattison is a gem. I concurr that Greaters are very different birds: they have a different beak size, posture, and their feathers are super-dense. I think they just might be a different species. I'm glad to hear not all Jardys have the biting problems I've encountered.

I do know one Lesser who is always sweet to me ( even when I'm clipping his wings and doing his nails ), but his owner says the bird does occasionally chomp him, although less lately as the bird is now 8. I've known or raised two Greaters, at least 6 Lessers, and two Black-Wings ( although one of these may have been a hybrid ). Hope your experience is a good one.