Training Technique

[diaz0504]

I have asked a similar question before but I am still a little confused is Clicker training better then the old fashion training.

I have read that the best treat is not something they eat but just to praise by petting their favorite area and of course telling them how good they are. The reason being is because you will always be able to praise them but you will not always have treats and clickers around. Now can you guys give me your experience with training.

David

[David S]

David, I'm going to ask Lara to jump in on this one. I have never "gotten" clicker training, meaning I've never learned to use it effectively.....not a problem with the method but rather a problem with the user!!!!! Anyway, Lara trains on a daily basis and is an awesome behaviorist. Hopefully she'll jump in!!!

[svolk]

I have clickers and have been meaning to start using them, but I've been too lazy thus far But I also haven't needed to use them yet because my training is going fine without them.

It has been my experience that if starting with a treat when training, a treat is not always necessary after they have gotten the hang of it. I use a phrase ("GOOD BOY!!") in conjunction with the treat. I don't always have treats on me and once they get the idea of what it is you want them to do, they will accept the praise only. I do reinforce the behavior/action with a treat fairly often, just as a reminder that - cause those budgies will WORK for millet And to not overdo the treats, Jerry only gets 1 nibble of millet when getting praised for the desired behavior.

It's really all in the timing, that is what I learned. AS SOON as they do the desired behavior, such as step up, you have to be QUICK with the reward. It took me quite a few tries to get my timing to be quick with the treat. I've figured out how to have a small sprig of millet hidden in my hand most of the time - and sometimes I forget it's there and Jerry sees it and goes digging in my palm, but that seems to give him a thrill by sometimes finding it unexpectedly He now searches my palm occassionally when I don't have treats too Overall the training has really boosted our relationship a lot, in addition to keeping his behavior in check.

[mamalovesrico]

Why thank you for that compliment, David. Thank you very much.

Ok, other David, well this is my experience and my experience only. More than likely, your birds aren't going to do all the tricks you want them to do for a scritch in their favorite place. I'm not being sarcastic whatsoever, just saying that based on my thoughts and experience. I don't clicker train, meaning I use the same method, I just don't use a clicker. The clicker is the bridge between the action and the reward. Sarah's bridge is "Good Boy", mine is "Good Job". I think clicker training will give you the result a lot faster and your bird will be more eager in learning than give a sign of appreciation. I tell Murray, "step down". He's not going to step down. He'd rather be on me than on that perch all by himself. I show him the treat, Murray steps down.

Sometimes I do ask for a trick and the reward is simply just me getting excited, a scratch or me clapping. Even me laughing can be their reward, but honestly, I don't think they will continue with successful training and tricks with a scratch as their reward. Give it a try, I would be interested in hearing of your results.

[mamalovesrico]

Just thought of this, sorry. Training, as far as tricks, is more about timing. Doing things at just the right moment. Petting or scratching is going to take more time than I think it should be to be effective. Did that make any sense?

[svolk]

I want to point out that I currently do not do trick training, I am working on simple stuff like Step up (as a constant reinforcement so that I can pick him up from anywhere - he was getting very testy about stepping up from shoulders a few weeks ago). And we are working on Recall training.

Here is an interesting observation that another poster and I have discovered when it comes to recall:

We get more effective results when using a hand signal along with a verbal command. I say "Come Here" and at the same time do a motion with my hand and this has been more effective than the words alone. Then when he does fly over he of course gets the verbal praise of "Good Boy" and the treat.

Treats are VERY effective from my experience as well, which is why I am sticking with using treats most of the time. I've found that it's a very strong motivator.

And Diaz, I realize that I am working with a small budgie and you will be bringing home a GW, but basic training is basic training for some things.

[cfulhage]

Just to add a point from my experience...I use a clicker for Ollie, which like mentioned before, is a bridge between the action and the reward. The click tells the bird that what they just did, is the correct action. I think using a verbal command, like good boygirl or good job would work just as good, but with Ollie, as soon as she sees the clicker, she knows its time to please. She knows there are nuts in my pocket, and she knows she can get them if she does what I ask. Just seeing the clicker is her cue to do what I ask. It seems to really help with the quality of our training sessions. Other than that, I don't think a clicker is really necessary.

[Freedomoflight]

With clicker training, you can use reinforcer you want. What does your bird respond to best? My amazon responds best to food, the caiques respond best to petting, etc. So, the amazon gets a special treat, and the caiques get a headscratch and verbal praise. Does it work? Yup.
Like mentioned, clicker training is simply a bridging tool- the sound of the click is the bridge between action and behavior. Does it have to be a commercially available clicker? Nope. It can be a well known phrase- good bird, good, etc. It can be the snap of a finger, the click from the top of a pen. With clicker training, once the bridge is established and the bird understands what he/she is being reinforced for, you can reinforce the behavior using the clicker, then start weaning off using the clicker.
Sound hard? I've watched Barbara Heindenrich teach a caique turn around on command, using clicker training methods and the word 'good' in place of the click, in 5 minutes.
Clicker training is positive reinforcement, which is why the methods are so effective.

[mamalovesrico]

Originally Posted by cfulhage

Just to add a point from my experience...I use a clicker for Ollie, which like mentioned before, is a bridge between the action and the reward. The click tells the bird that what they just did, is the correct action. I think using a verbal command, like good boygirl or good job would work just as good, but with Ollie, as soon as she sees the clicker, she knows its time to please. She knows there are nuts in my pocket, and she knows she can get them if she does what I ask. Just seeing the clicker is her cue to do what I ask. It seems to really help with the quality of our training sessions. Other than that, I don't think a clicker is really necessary.

Camille, when my birds see the pine nuts, they know it's time to perform.

None of my birds would do well with scratching as their reward. It simply wouldn't work, but that's just my experience.

[cfulhage]

Well that would work if you use pine nuts just for training. I don't work with Ollie every day, and I don't like to withhold her beloved almonds from her on those days. This way, I can give her an almond any old time, but unless she sees the clicker, she knows its just a treat, and not a reward.

I know she's smart, but she's just a baby, and I like to eliminate any unecessary confusion!