flight trianing

[ringo]

hi,is there anybody who flight train their bird?
could anybody share?
thanks alot

[Jag]

Do you mean fledging a baby who hasn't flown before? Or do you mean free flight training where the bird is outside either with a harness and long lead or without any harness at all?

[ringo]

flying the bird outside...hehe

[NotEnoughTime]

Monica has a whole bunch of websites on free flight in the thread:

Freeflight Training

See Monica's post #3

[Jag]

Originally Posted by ringo

flying the bird outside...hehe

I think you should know that even if you've done tons of recall training, taking your bird outside to fly has its dangers. If on a harness it could get entangled in things or another bird could attack/kill it. Also if not with a harness or flight suit, even recall trained birds can fly off and be gone... I have seen video of Macs that are doing 'free flight' and it's a beautiful sight to see, but I still cringe at the thought that they could just fly off and be gone.

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by Jag

I have seen video of Macs that are doing 'free flight' and it's a beautiful sight to see, but I still cringe at the thought that they could just fly off and be gone.

The interesting thing is that, for the very great majority, they don't...

Fly off and be gone that is...

We teach dogs to "come" and "stay" - why not birds?? Just because there is a "third dimension" doesn't mean they cannot learn the same things.

Our comfort level is based on keeping a bird in a cage and expecting an intelligent creature to like it there... Of course it won't like being "captive". We wouldn't - so why should a bird? When "freedom" comes then it makes perfect sense that an intelligent animal will take full advantage of its newfound freedom.

What happens if the bird is already free? Then it is the bird's choice to come back or to go? Isn't that the best thing for birds?

Everyone who deals with free flight knows there are risks. Monica pointed out one risk to me a while back... A bird that was struck by a van as it was returning to its owner (across a street). There are many other risks...

But is it *fair* to a bird to keep it in a cage just to be safe?

For me - I think not... I do not judge owners who have decided to allow their birds the freedom and beauty of flight. And to fly free outside would be the greatest freedom and beauty of all... I respect anyone who wishes to go through the training and trust with their fids to obtain this freedom...

[Jag]

Really? Most don't fly off? I guess all the posts about people who 'didn't realize' that their bird woud take off on them are a figment...
I wouldn't begin to assume that everyone knows there is risk. I'd think it would be common sense, but again, pages and pages of posts of missing birds say otherwise.
Even dogs that are taught to 'come' and 'stay' don't ALWAYS do this... if they did, there wouldn't be any reason for leash laws, etc. As for being captive... well, if you'd never been 'free' do you think you'd miss it? People in North Korea are a perfect example. They have no idea what is out there in the world...so they have nothing to miss. However people and pets are VERY different discussions and I think it's a bit like apples and oranges. They AREN'T humans, don't have the same thinking abilities as humans (different brain developments). When taking a pet in, then, I think it's the owner's responsibility to keep them safe. (Still not speaking of free flight) If the bird was already free, then it wouldn't be tamed to hand to begin with, and I think it would not have any reason to return to a human. (If it was already free then it would have to have been born and raised in its natural environment.) Whether or not that's the best thing for the bird is debatable. If it's not in its native environment... if it has been hand raised and doesn't have the benefit of being raised in the wild, then no, it's not in their best interest. I'd think it wouldn't take long for it to die by a predator or starvation, or the elements.
On to free flight... I said nothing about judging anyone. I said nothing judgemental at all. I *used* to think that people would usually make good common sense choices and there was no need to point out the 'obvious'. However, as amazing and heartbreaking as it is, there are still birds being 'lost' all the time by people who claim they 'didn't realize' that their bird would fly off because it was bonded, or it was recall trained, or whatever. Just today another post from someone getting a new bird after a poor decision allowed their bird to become 'lost' and probably subsequently killed. (This is what that poster thinks happened to it). So, I don't assume that everyone knows the risk of anything anymore. Your advice as of late to many is "go for it" in whatever it is they are speaking of...but I wonder if you'd do the same with your own.... or if you protect your bird by 'locking it up in a cage'?

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by Jag

Really? Most don't fly off? I guess all the posts about people who 'didn't realize' that their bird woud take off on them are a figment...

You are talking about flighted birds that have not been trained and have "flown away" out a balcony door. This is not freeflight training.

Monica's links were pretty detailed. Read them (that is, if they still work!). It's been a while since I went through them - but there is an entirely different school of thought than yours out there.

Originally Posted by Jag

Even dogs that are taught to 'come' and 'stay' don't ALWAYS do this... if they did, there wouldn't be any reason for leash laws, etc.

Then the dogs are not well trained. Owners who take the time to train their dogs or parrots have animals that come and stay on command.

Please read Monica's recommendation of "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor. It is well worth it.

Originally Posted by Jag

However people and pets are VERY different discussions and I think it's a bit like apples and oranges. They AREN'T humans, don't have the same thinking abilities as humans (different brain developments).

I think this concept is one of the most detrimental ones we can make about companion animals. All animals are capable of learning. All are capable of solving problems. Some can solve larger problems - true. We, as humans, can solve pretty large problems but also create larger problems - and seem oblivious to them sometimes...

Originally Posted by Jag

On to free flight... I said nothing about judging anyone. I said nothing judgemental at all. I *used* to think that people would usually make good common sense choices and there was no need to point out the 'obvious'. However, as amazing and heartbreaking as it is, there are still birds being 'lost' all the time by people who claim they 'didn't realize' that their bird would fly off because it was bonded, or it was recall trained, or whatever.

This statement, to me anyway, is full of judgement. It judges all bird owners who do not agree with you to not have "common sense." That is why it rubs some people the wrong way. I don't necessarily agree that those people who have undergone freeflight training don't have common sense.

Originally Posted by Jag

Your advice as of late to many is "go for it" in whatever it is they are speaking of...but I wonder if you'd do the same with your own.... or if you protect your bird by 'locking it up in a cage'?

I've had birds in my care for over 30 years. All have flown outside at one time or another. All have come back. Gari is sitting between my hands on my laptop pecking at my thumb as I type this. She is in her sleep cage at night and out *most* of the rest of the time...

We do not learn without trying...

[ringo]

im very sorry to rise the argumant, but it is a hot topic inmy area that people are not clippignt heir bird wing vs clipping.
i honestly belong to those without clipping...and free flight trianing...
we really have a good point to argue about everytime...

everybody have different expiriance and point of view...i have seen some of the bird park have trianed their birds from parrot, to softbills and to bird of prey to free fligh and return in commands...some of my friend did too, but, honestly, alot of them lost their bird as they do not know how to train(or may be the bird is not trained enough).

there was more lost on free flight training by ammetures i think. it is obviously because they do not have the knowladge of the training and there is no condusive area to free flight the bird. unlike in the bird exhibition park which place is ensured that there is no banging loud sound and they are all trian by profesional...

as there is alot of success story about the success(also alot of failure as mention above) believe flight trianing is very posible, as long as we know how to train the bird and make the flying field condusive, i think free flight is very possible

i have yet to 100% successfully trian my bird, i lost may bird once. during free flight training at soccer field, he did really well, almost 100% of success at every call. but one day, he open the cage and flew of, i could not relocate him anymore....

really wish to learn and know more about peoples point of view on free flight

thanks alot

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by ringo

i have yet to 100% successfully trian my bird, i lost may bird once. during free flight training at soccer field, he did really well, almost 100% of success at every call. but one day, he open the cage and flew of, i could not relocate him anymore....

Yes - without 100% recall then freeflight is not going to work very well. And you cannot assume that recall is generalized to all situations. It is especially difficult to recall a bird when you are not there (ie. the bird opens the cage and flys away while you are elsewhere - if the bird is not trained to "go to perch" then it could be anywhere).

Freeflight enthusiasts will often find large enclosed spaces - such as an empty warehouse - to engage in flight. This would be the equivalent of taking your dog to a fenced in "dog park" - where the fences go in three dimensions. This allows further training of the bird to help generalize recall.

Shanlung of "The Tinkerbell Legacy" (Tinkerbell Legacy - Living and loving of a flying CAG in Taiwan) made a good point to me once. We do not often teach birds to fly down... They fly up easily enough - but flying down (from a tree for instance) is not taught... It is a good point.