Question on Obedience training

[Tashalee]

Crispin (my white capped pi) came to me already hand tame and knows the "up" command. He's very well behaved in this area and almost always listens when I tell him "up". My question is should I still do the obedience training techniques? The ones I'm referring to are the t-stand and having your bird repeatedly step up on your hand for 10 minutes straight. When this is mastered then the cage top, then from in the cage etc. I've tried the t-stand technique and after a few minutes he seems to become very agitated so I stop. I'm still learning his body language and about parrot behavior in general so I'm stumped. Is his agitation a way to try to evade and be disobedient and should I continue to train? Or should I just leave it be?

[Phenomenon]

Oooooo, you said a bad word! "Obedience?" Hush yo mouf!

*someone serious will be along later to give your question serious consideration.

[jenseits]

Originally Posted by Phenomenon

Oooooo, you said a bad word! "Obedience?" Hush yo mouf!

*someone serious will be along later to give your question serious consideration.

HAHAHA... you just knew either Roger or I was going to jump in about that, right Phenom?

Tashalee - no, you do not need to ladder your bird for 10 minutes straight. That sounds horrifically boring and won't really accomplish much except make Crispin cross. (Would it surprise anyone that I don't do Stairmaster?)

He's not being disobedient, he's just irritated. And I would be too if I were him. It's great, though, that you can read his body language and you can tell that he doesn't like it.

I'd say, stop with the repeated step ups, and move onto something else, so you can both have more fun and make training a more rewarding experience. Training birds is not about "obedience"... it's about learning to read each other, learning each other's expectations, learning "how to learn", and having some fun.

A great next trick is "targeting". I think there's some information on how to teach that on the board (just use the search function in the navigation)...

[Phenomenon]

Originally Posted by jenseits

HAHAHA... you just knew either Roger or I was going to jump in about that, right Phenom?
Tashalee - no, you do not need to ladder your bird for 10 minutes straight. That sounds horrifically boring and won't really accomplish much except make Crispin cross. (Would it surprise anyone that I don't do Stairmaster?)

He's not being disobedient, he's just irritated. And I would be too if I were him. It's great, though, that you can read his body language and you can tell that he doesn't like it.

I'd say, stop with the repeated step ups, and move onto something else, so you can both have more fun and make training a more rewarding experience. Training birds is not about "obedience"... it's about learning to read each other, learning each other's expectations, learning "how to learn", and having some fun.

A great next trick is "targeting". I think there's some information on how to teach that on the board (just use the search function in the navigation)...

[Lisa B]

Originally Posted by jenseits

Training birds is not about "obedience"... it's about learning to read each other, learning each other's expectations, learning "how to learn", and having some fun.

..

Laddering was old time punishment. To make the bird do something it didnt want to, because it did something wrong. We've moved on from that.

use positive reinforcement while working with him. Some use a favorite food, I prefer vocal praise. We react positive-when they do.

every action causes a reaction. we need to train ourselves just as much as we "think" the bird needs training.

[birdiemommy]

Instead of commanding your bird, think of it another way. I ask my birds to step up. If they don't, in most situations, that is an answer I respect. They learn that by not stepping up, they are missing out on attention or treats. There is always going to be situations when they need to step up even if they don't want to, but that is rarer than you might think.
The trick is to get the bird to step up because they think there is something in it for them. No offense please, but it is kinda like making your spouse do what you want but letting them think it was their idea.

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by jenseits

HAHAHA... you just knew either Roger or I was going to jump in about that, right Phenom?

I was too busy arguing semantics on another thread to jump on anything... :-)

We can go on about the semantics of the word "Obedience" at some other time...

I believe that training should be fun - for both the trainer and the trainee... So if I am bored doing the training then I can't imagine how boring it would be for the parrot... Once something stops being fun then it is time to look at a different approach.

Definately you *don't* want the parrot to become so irritated with the training that he or she decides to do something else. This kind of defeats the purpose of the training and the parrot learns that the "something else" may be more "fun" to do...

Targetting as mentioned by jenseits is a great next step.

[Tashalee]

OK, the book I'm reading needs to be recycled and I'll just come to all you experienced folk when I have a question:D I'm glad that I don't need to be doing that "laddering" technique cause it's irritating to him and your right Roger...it is boring! So good riddance to that. I just looked up clicker/target training today and have a clicker ready and waiting so we'll move on to that. Thanks again everyone!

[jenseits]

Originally Posted by Tashalee

OK, the book I'm reading needs to be recycled and I'll just come to all you experienced folk when I have a question:D I'm glad that I don't need to be doing that "laddering" technique cause it's irritating to him and your right Roger...it is boring! So good riddance to that. I just looked up clicker/target training today and have a clicker ready and waiting so we'll move on to that. Thanks again everyone!

Yay. If you're looking for a great resource on clicker training birds, I recommend Melinda Johnson's book: http://tinyurl.com/clickertraining

And there are lots of videos on YouTube showing how to get started on clicker training targeting if you prefer videos. The BungeesMom channel I pointed you to in the other thread has great intro videos on that behavior as well.

Have fun and let us know how it goes!

[tielfan]

the book I'm reading needs to be recycled

The philosophy of bird training has changed quite a lot in the last few years and any book that's more than 5 to 10 years old is almost certain to contain outdated ideas. Not all bird trainers are equally up to speed on the latest theory so there could also be some problems with newer books.

Until fairly recently it was thought that forceful dominance was the way to train birds. Then it progressed to a gentler type of dominance. It was originally thought that parrots had a dominance-based social hierarchy in their flocks but this turned out not to be true. So nowadays the best-accepted theory is to forget dominance and punishment and use positive reinforcement instead. It works better!