He is REALLY P*ssed!

[TheHolisticNanny]

MO, is MAD! BITING MAD!... I've been bit SO much this week that I'm just about ready to bite him BACK!

BUt seriously, MO (CAG)*seems* to appreciate Gracies's (g2) company, buts hates her, AND is very pissed at me! How do I know this, let me show you my HANDS!!!!

MO is not scared or timid in any way shape or form.... most of the time he waits oh so patiently until I pick him/step him up to bite me HARD on my thumb and then hold ON with his beak, to the point that i've let go of him and then had to scrape him of of me or use my other hand to pry his beak off of my hand.

LIKE tonight for instance, same routine as every night, but (and for the second time) I tell him to step up it's time for bed and he does cause he's pretty good about stepping up, I get one step from the day cage and he reaches down and bites the living hell out of my thumb, got me good in the meaty part too!

My hands are covered with bite marks and they seem to infect easily.


He's not giving me much to work on as far as body language, and he picks seemingly random times to draw blood, YET, is acting MUCh more affectionate. If you can imagine how a grey who doesn't want to be touched is affectionate in the first place


REALLY I am trying to prevent bites, trying to give him MORE attention than Gracie, but still the biting, the bleeding the pissed off bird and owner....


Any one got a suggestion?> I'd really like to hear it, cause at this point I'm going to get a nice pair of gloves to wear for the twice a day mandatory step-ups (to and from sleep and day cages)

UGH!

[Greycloud]

Do not do gloves! First of all the one example you gave about you walking him to his cage and him biting you was his signal. He did not want to be locked in his cage. I understand the issue of having to put him to bed but he doesn't. You said you do see any body language prior to biting. Sometimes that is the body language. They don't move. They wait for you to make the move and let you know it is unacceptable. Have you tried stick training? Will he perch on a hand held perch for you to get him to step up on? Somewhere along the line he lost trust in you. It could be the G2. Now you have to regain that trust on his terms. So stick training may be the way to start. It will save your hands. Make sure you wash your hands with a good antibiotic soap and put some triple antibiotic cream on. Sometimes you do have to pry their beaks off.

[TheHolisticNanny]

Yeah...no...... Mo welcomes his sleep cage I have him on a schedule and when I approach him to take him to his sleep cage he IS ready, so much so that he walks over TO ME and steps up. I Do think he understands his schedule and being put in his sleep cage, I don't think he resents being "locked away" in a sleep cage for peaceful sleep..

Nope, not doing the "being still before a bite" thing either, honestly, he acts like everything is normal/as usual, then BAM!


I CAN use a stick/perch, but something about that really seem counterproductive to me. I mean the only thing that does is prevents me from getting hurt more, plus whats to stop him from walking the stick and still biting me? Doesn't teach him NOT to bite.


When he bites, he certainly DOESN"T get his way, I continue with what ever I was going to do in the first place. Be it taking him to the day cage or from it. So there really isn't any reinforcement of the biting.


Hmmmmmm.

[Kiwi08]

I had a similar problem with my senegal... he would seem perfectly fine then ouch! he would bite and hang on. I narrowed it down to the fact that he didn't want to go back in his cage (I know you say that he doesn't mind, which may be true, but it sounds like there is some issue with you taking him in or out of the cages). I also thought stick training was counterproductive for the same reasons you said above. What I did was give him a treat whenever I put him away (in your case whenever you take him in or out?) You could even show it to him first and keep it in sight until you pick him up and then put him where he's supposed to go, then immediately give him the treat. In my case that has so far worked and now no more bites. In fact, now its just a normal thing, when he goes away he gets a treat (makes it a positive experience, rather than negative since he would never actually like to be put away). Anyway, just one thing you could try... oh yeah, and if he bites, he wouldn't get the treat.

[birdiemommy]

A few things come to mind. Any time a behavior is performed, it reinforces it to occur again. So everytime he bites you increases the chance it will happen again. I don't think there is anything wrong with using s stick to transport. It will allow you to break the cycle of biting and doesn't have to be forever.
Would it be possible to give him a treat when you are trying to move him? Give him a incompatible behavior- something he can't do and bite at the same time. A big treat or a foot toy, you hold one end and he holds the other. And prasie him while he is attending to the toy.
I had a grey that I was doing some rehab with. He bit women badly. I took a toy I knew he was not afraid of and held it up to him in my other hand. I used it to basically block him from biting the hand he was on. It allowed the ccyle of biting to end.
Some birds might actually be reinfroced by biting itself, not even your reaction to it. Our skin is soft and fleshy and hard underneath, and has a taste and texture all its own.
One more thought is that some birds have learned over time that their signals are ignored. Some older birds tend to go right to the bite because experience has showed them that it is the only thing respected. So he may have come to you already "trained" not to show signs ahead of time.
Good luck with your birdie

[TheHolisticNanny]

and it also give me an idea for "hand held perching toys"

MO is the kind of bird that doesn't prefer food treats, he prefers verbal praise and lots of "to do's" clapping jumping and general party-ing.

I KNOW if I offered him a treat, he would do one of two things, reject it OR take it then immediately drop it and reach for me.

He is in human terms.... a cranky old man and too smart for his own damn good!

I"m going to try some desensitizing exercises with him as well, he's not afraid of me per say, but in general doesn't like to be touched, so I'll work on that.

Little stinker!

[Greycloud]

There is a homemade version of a perching stick to protect you hand. You feed a perch through the opening of a 2 liter soda bottle cut in half. The bottle acts as a shield to you hand. They also make a handsafe version. A perch with a half of a coconut shell on the end. Hope this helps.

[TheHolisticNanny]

Against the advice of others, I decided to buy a pair of suede gardening gloves for handling MO.

GLAD I DID!....

I think the pp was correct when saying that biting is in of itself a reinforcing behavior.

Mo, not afraid of the gloves, not afraid of much to tell you the truth, well except flying.... BIG CHICKEN!


So I approached Mo, as usual with the exception of the gardening gloves, (which BTW, I got on mega clearance for 5$!!))

MO, looked side ways at them and still understood that his command was to step up.... he did... I got him out to put him to bed, and he bit me AGAIN....
BUT since I had the gloves on it hurt but not NEAR as bad, and I was able to refrain from flinching....

MO bit, I held still, commanded NO BITE in my usual NO BITE voice, and he stood upright, SHOCKED. In disbelief that my hand had NOT moved when he bit me.


BAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH......... Take that neener neener..... alright, maybe that was uncalled for, but seriously, I wanted to jump up and down!!!!

That was almost a week ago, and I have used the gloves each time I handle him. MO is NOT afraid, but he also hasn't bothered to try biting me again....

I plan to continue to use the gloves for a while, at least until I can feel his energy shift and he isn't SO pissed about having to share his home and human with Gracie and Norbert.

Thanks every one..... I'll keep every one posted on the progress.