is hormone season a bad time to start a birdy boot camp?

[TinaBanana]

sorry this will be a bit long but i want to give as much info as possible to get help for me and my quaker tweek.

he is 3 years old. he was pretty wild when we got him as a baby and had to teach him to step up and everything. For the first 2 years we had him things were great, he would step up anytime we asked him, even from inside his cage. would ever hardly bite and was, well average on noise level, he is a quaker after all :icon_mrgr

it all really started to go down hill last spring. a bit hit of maturity hormones and the terrible twos. maybe its all still going on, but it never got much better in the summer, winter and fall and now it seem worste then ever.

we had a fire at our house a few months ago and we have been living in a temporary appartement since. so im sure this is adding to the whole problem.

some of the biggest problems right now.

#1 he screams ALOT. he screams all the time whenever we leave the room but also when we are sitting there. we try to call back but it really doesnt calm him down. we also do our best to ignore it but we have also bad and sometimes yell at him to be quiet, which ofcourse is not helping. he understand what ''be quiet'' means, after all he tells us to be quiet a night when we talk too loud and he is covered.

#2 he doesnt step up much at all. its known that quakers are teritorial over there cage but its getting to be a bit too much. he wont step up from inside his cage but that is pretty much expected for a quaker. but he also wont step up from his porch anymore (opening in front of his door that extends like 6 inchs.) instead when we ask him to step up from there he will run into his cage, where he knows we wont try to get him out. i tried for a while to be very strict and when i asked to step up and he would run inside i would towel him out and then ladder him. the laddering doenst seem to have much effect on him. he obeys it 100% with no objection. he will step up from fingers and shoulders with no objections. the top of his cage is hit or miss. for a while i kepted a washcloth by the cage and whenever he was on top and wouldnt step up i would show him the washcloth and explain that it was his last chance to step up peicefully. it took a while but after a while when he saw the washcloth coming he understood and steped up nicely.
this technique doesnt work as well from inside the cage.

also he is used to being baseball gloved when he accidently flies to the floor. he doesnt seem to mind, we have been doing it for years but now he is resisting that also sometimes.

#3 biting, lunging, hissing. he has learned just how to bite us to inflict maximum pain. i know its not an excuse but i dont know how anyone can take that pain. he draws blood and takes alot of skin along with it whenever he doenst want to step up.

on that note we havent been great on that side either. i pull back when he lunges and hisses at me and i yell when it hurts.

he has also mastered how to inflict pain when using a towel. if im not careful he can really bite thru the towel and hurt me. alot of this biting is done very viciously. like he is trying to hurt on purpose. alot of times we are just walking by the cage and he will lungue at us for no good reason.

he even knows how to get to your hands when u try to use a stick. so method cant even really be used.

ok now that you have most of the info my main question here.... is hormone season/ high stress time a good time to start a birdy boot camp.

and by that i mean, going back to basic for him and us.
id like advice on where to start and how far i should go.
my main question is, should i expect him to step up from inside his cage or his porch, or should i just give up and accept that its his cage and it will never happen?

one last question, is it bad that i took out his happy hut of his cage because he was doing ungodly things to it?

im thinking of keeping a weekly log of our progress, would anyone be interested in seing this?

[Monica]

For the screaming, check this out:
http://www.birdboard.com/forum/thread9659.html

As for the biting, try using some garden gloves (not too thick but not too thin, ones that you can easily flex), and some bandage (such as ACE). Wrap the bandage around your arm, and if need be, wear a sweater. Put the gloves on then, and handle him. You'll need to get him used to coming out of his cage when you would like him to.

Removing the happy hut was good, and try removing all of his toys as well. I know this is harsh though. I assume his wings are already clipped, so beyond removing all of his toys, completely rearrange his cage and move it to another spot in the apartment (if he's in the livingroom, move him to the bedroom, or vice verca).

As for working with him, removing him from his cage and take him to another room. You may also want to try the intensive love method ( http://www.landofvos.com/faqs/faqs4.html ), have toys with you, and lots of yummy food so that he will know that coming out of the cage is a good thing!

BTW, if he has any mirrors near or in his cage, IMMEDIATELY remove these as they can cause even more damage and aggression...

[TinaBanana]

Hi thx for the advice alot of it i would have never thought of.

im a bit worried about 2 things.
the removing of the toys...he is home alone all day. is that still ok? can i leave him a favorte toy in? or is the whole point to teach him that its good to come out of the cage?

im also worried about moving him to a part of the house that gets more traffic.
again i assume the point is to teach im that if he is good, he is aloud to be on a play gym in the living room...and if he is bad then he gets to go to the boring cage in the boring room?

how long do i leave the cage empty of toys? how long do i leave him in the bedroom?

yes his wings are clipped but they are growing in fast and soon he will be able to fly for a few weeks until they are ready to be clipped.

i have to say his cage hasnt been rearanged since we have been in this appartment. we also havent gotten him any new toys, other then new bags that he likes to shred.

something else i forgot to mention, he is very food agressive. whenever i bring him supper (in a white paper plate) he will do his darn best to try to bite me while i bring it to him. as soon as i set it down he starts eating right away. same thing with this white cup, anytime i try to handle it he will try to kill my hand as im trying to attach it to his cage. it doesnt attach solid so whenever he is done eating he will throw it overboard and spill everything in it. same thing with the plate. what should i do about this problem?

[Monica]

The idea of bringing his toys out is to say that his cage is no longer fun. When you'd be working with him, you would have some of his favorite toys with you at that moment for him to play with. Some birds enjoy playing tug of war with a small towel or handcloth. You need to be sure to make it fun however and act like you are having a grand time.

I wouldn't leave the toys out for more than two weeks however, though if he is already in the bedroom, then maybe having him around more action might get him more used to seeing you and everyone else. It's actually better for him to be able to see you as often as possible, but if he's already in a spot such as that, then you could try moving him...

As far as the food, try to make him come out of the cage and away from it to get his food. When he becomes tamer, he may enjoy sitting at the table with the family and either having his own plate to eat off of or sharing from everyone elses plate.


It sounds as if he is being a VERY difficult little toddler! Just try to be patient, and if while working with him you get any bit frusterated or mad, just set him down on his cage and walk off. Come back later when you are feeling more calmed down. If possible, try working with him for 15 minutes every two hours that you are home, until bedtime.

[TinaBanana]

well ill feel horrible doing it but tonight i am removing all toys, aranging the inside of the cage and will relocate the cage to a quiet bedroom.

im still thinking that doing the 2 things at once might be a big shock. i mean stuck in a plain boring room (where he cant see his best bud the cat) with no toys for 8 hours. are you sure about this?

so in the morning he will have breakfast with us, in the kitchen. then back in the cage while i am at work. when i come home at night i will put him on his playgym in the living room and let him be with us. as any time where he is being bad i bring him to his cage. if he is quiet for a while then i can try to bring him back to the living room? what if he doesnt want to come out of his cage at that point? (i know he wont, at first anyway) do i force him out, or do i leave him be in his boring cage? does this sound like a good plan?

another anoying habit where im not too sure what to do. he obviously enjoys getting his neck rubbed. i use to do it alot before for pretty long periods of time.

now if i catch him at a good time he will let me do it but only for like 5 seconds before he bites me. while im doing it he is clearly enjoying it. he wont let me do it for more then a few seconds before he tries to bite me. then if i try to continue he will try to bite right away or give it 1-2 seconds.
i know im not touching pin feathers, sure it might happen sometimes but he does this everytime. any advice on what to do here?

thx for all your help, i am determined to turn him back into cute loving tweek again.

[Monica]

You can really try to entice him out with toys or food and be sure to talk to him in a soft gentle voice, even as if you might be talking to a baby! If he is being quiet and good, try to let him come out of the cage for socialization, however if he's being bad, leave him in his cage or put him back and wait for 15 minutes. If he seems to be doing good, try to get him back out again.

As far as actually scratching his neck, my conure only allows a short rub just like your quaker, however, if I put her under a towel or a blanket (if it's a blanket, you need to be sure it's during the day when you are not tired - with towels, the bird is wrapped up, with the blanket, both of you are under it) and try then. Of course this is also where the Intensive Love Method ( http://www.landofvos.com/faqs/faqs4.html ) comes in handy!

This is what we are trying to accomplish, a big shock from him, to make him realise that he's not going to like what will happen unless he's being good! It's called 'harsh love'!

[TinaBanana]

wow i gotta say i put the cage in the second bedroom today and removed all toys. and right away i am seing huge improvements.

Where his cage was beside the couch, i replaced it with a table with his gym and all his toys. and he still has access to the couch via a ladder that i can remove when i leave the room.

when the ladder was conected to the cage, he wouldnt step off of it. and even would rarely step up from the couch arm. now with the cage removed, the ladder is in the same spot but he hasnt refused to step up once.

also once he started one of his screaming fits, in the bedroom he went in the boring cage. he contined screaming for a good 10-15 mins, but once he was quiet for about 5 mins i went in to get him. opened the cage. he came out on his porch and steped right up!! i dont think he has done that without a treat in hand in a good year.

i have to say i am amazed but it really does make sense. ever since the fire he was always in or on his cage, he had no play gym like before, seperate from the cage. before he spent half his time on the gym and half in the cage.
how with all this time in the cage (and 3 months of not changing it inside) it had become his teritory and no one was allowed close to it.

im home for 3 days this weekend and going back to work tuesday. i have to say i am worried about the empty cage when i get back to work. i might break down and leave him 2 favorite toys in there while he is alone all day long. and once i come back at night i will remove the toys.

i just wish i had more time or money to make or buy a better gym for the living room. but that wont come for a while until we get some money from the insurance.

thx for the suggestions, we are all working on a better tweek here!

[Monica]

It sounds as if he is already making improvements! If he does great this weekend, then you can give him a toy or two while your gone and see how he goes from there!